If you’re like… well… everyone on this podcast, you’ve had some pretty epic webcomic ideas. They’re really cool and exciting, maybe you’ve even been developing them for years without even drawing a page, and it's such an expansive idea it's probably going to even longer to draw, maybe even ten years! (if you’re lucky). This is a situation that can be both exciting and scary, and today we're going to talk about taking this BIG idea and using it to start your webcomic journey.

In this Episode:




• Did you launch right into your big comic idea when you started making webcomics, or did you do something else first? Our hosts share their experiences!
• hould a “Big Idea” be your first comic, in your opinion? What are some traps that people fall into when they want to start with a “big idea”?
• What is your advice to someone who has a “big idea” that they’re really passionate about, but they want to go about making it in a sustainable and healthy way?

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Episode Release Date: February 4, 2026

Episode Credits:

Ally Rom Colthoff (Varethane) - she/they, chirault.sevensmith.net wychwoodcomic.com

Christina Major (Delphina) - she/her, sombulus.com

Kristen Lee (Krispy) - she/they, https://ghostjunksickness.com https://www.lunarblight.com

Rae Baade - they/them, https://empyreancomic.com

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The Intro "DO IT (feat. Shia LaBeouf)", and the Outro "It's Good To See You Again!!", both by Adrianwave, have been used and modified in good faith under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Licensed. Edits include: Fade IN/OUT, and a repeat added to the beginning of "It's Good To See You Again!!". For more information on this creative commons use, please reference https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.

Transcription

00:06.45

Krispy

Okay. Hello and welcome to Screen Tones, where we talk anything and everything webcomics. Today we're going to be talking about the pros and cons of starting with a big webcomic idea.

 

00:18.76

Krispy

I'm Krispy, my pronouns are she/they, and I make the webcomics Ghost Junk Sickness and Lunar Blight.

 

00:25.41

Star

I'm Star, my pronouns are she/her, and I make the comic Castoff.

 

00:35.10

Rae

And I'm Rae, my pronouns are they/them, and I make the webcomics Overlord of Ravenfell and On Empyrean High.

 

00:43.22

Varethane

And I'm Varethane. And my pronouns are she/they. I make the webcomics Chirault and Wychwood.

 

00:50.37

Krispy

Beautiful. Absolutely delicious. Those sound like some pretty long webcomics, but we'll get into that.

 

 

00:57.09

Krispy

So, well, if you're like, I guess everybody on this podcast, you've had some pretty epic webcomic ideas. They're really cool and exciting. Maybe you've even been developing them for 10 or more years before you've drawn your first page.

 

01:13.67

Krispy

And they're probably going to take another 10 years to draw, if you're lucky. This is a situation that can be both exciting and scary. And we're going to talk about it today.

 

01:24.50

Star

We're gonna fight.

 

01:26.81

Krispy

Oh gosh. Or we're going to agree. Because... So I'm going to throw this right to everyone and I'm probably going to throw it your direction, Star, first.

 

01:38.27

Krispy

So let's get into the down and dirties. Did you launch right into your big webcomic idea when you started making webcomics or did you do something else first?

 

01:48.79

Krispy

So let's talk.

 

01:50.36

Star

So, yes, but also asterisk. Because I've had many big ideas, and I took a stab at every single one of them, with varying levels of success.

 

02:07.69

Star

My very first webcomic I tried doing, I would say, was my capital B, capital I, big idea comic. The epic fantasy sci-fi, spacefaring, but also fantasy chosen-one story that I was developing in my sophomore year of high school that I thought was the coolest shit ever.

 

02:33.46

Star

I did my very first attempt at a webcomic, just try jumping straight into it, and when I say jumping straight into it, I mean I had no script, I had no plan, I was flying by the seat of my pants. And you know that baby only lasted six pages before I got bored. RIP.

 

02:56.98

Varethane

Many such cases.

 

02:59.22

Star

Ain't that just the way

 

02:59.27

Krispy

Yeah.

 

03:00.84

Rae

Sometimes you last 10 pages.

 

03:02.71

Krispy

Yeah. Yeah.

 

 

03:04.55

Krispy

Absolutely. um

 

03:07.06

Star

Okay, go down the line. First webcomic attempt. How long did everybody last?

 

03:11.24

Krispy

I'm excited to get to me now. Alright. So I'm going to go to Rae. Tell us about when you first started webcomics and if it was the one.

 

03:23.13

Rae

Okay, so much like Star, I have an asterisk at the yes, I started my big idea. Because it was actually not a webcomic. It was notebook paper in a binder in freshman year of high school.

 

03:39.98

Star

Yes!

 

03:40.09

Krispy

So delicious.

 

03:40.55

Rae

And yes, it was my big idea where I tossed all my favorite characters in one thing. And funnily enough, some of those characters are in the current project I'm working on right now.

 

03:52.48

Rae

But the story is completely different. I was originally going to turn it into a webcomic after I finished it in the notebook form that only my real life friends had read.

 

04:06.79

Rae

But then I had friends going, “Oh, let's collaborate on a story. And that ended up being my main project for quite a while. And then when I returned to this big idea, I was like, “Man, this is a mess.”

 

04:24.23

Star

You just look deeply inward and cringe.

 

04:28.74

Krispy

Yeah.

 

04:29.37

Rae

Yep. But now I'm at my, “To be cringes to be free.” So I'm taking some of those characters and letting them escape from that mess of a story and trying to make it a little bit more coherent.

 

04:44.76

Krispy

I like that.

 

04:45.07

Varethane

The Blorbos, they're escaping.

 

04:47.70

Star

Let them free!

 

04:47.92

Krispy

Or they're being recycled. Reduce, reduce.

 

04:49.64

Star

What's that poem where it's like the tiger is in his cage?

 

04:55.29

Krispy

Oh yeah yeah.

 

04:55.86

Star

Yes, yes, the tiger is out. Just do that poem, but replace it with Blorbos instead.

 

05:00.94

Star

Yes, yes, the Blorbos are out.

 

05:01.81

Rae

Yes.

 

05:03.04

Rae

The Blorbo is out.

 

05:04.81

Varethane

Blorbos are free.

 

05:07.99

Krispy

Alright, Blorbo. Let's talk about your cringe there, Thane.

 

05:11.59

Varethane

Oh, boy. I'm not actually sure how to quantify this one. So Wychwood is probably the closest thing that I have to the big one, the story that I initially started writing as a prose story when I was eight.

 

05:29.81

Varethane

But it was the 13th prose story that I wrote.

 

05:29.86

Star

Oh.

 

05:34.68

Krispy

Oh yeah. whoo!

 

05:36.05

Varethane

And some of them got quite long on notebook, like those little Hilroy, like notebook paper that they give you in like elementary school.

 

05:44.39

Krispy

Oh yeah.

 

05:44.93

Varethane

So I wanted to write stories, the idea of making comics kind of started in high school-ish. And by that point, I was already kind of looking back on Wychwood and being like, man, I got to update this thing because I still love the characters. But like I was eight.

 

06:03.14

Varethane

I don't know what I was doing. So like pieces of it, I would start kind of lifting out the pieces. And then I rewrote the entire thing as a novel when I was about 13. It was like 600 pages in Microsoft Word.

 

06:17.51

Varethane

And then it just kind of sat there on my hard drive while I was like, really love comics, want to make a comic of this, but I definitely need practice before I actually...

 

06:28.86

Varethane

do it because I want to do it good. I was just self-aware enough to know that my art at, you know, 15 was probably going to improve and that I was not going to like whatever I drew at that current point in time. So I started a few other attempts at making comics. I did one which I called Maelstroms, like its little subtitle. I drew it all in those micron pens on blank paper, very laboriously cross-hatched.

 

07:00.86

Star

UGH!

 

07:00.91

Varethane

Got to 19 pages before I ran out of steam. There was one story which involved werewolves and that one, yeah, werewolf story, untitled.

 

07:09.28

Krispy

What? Oh my gosh.

 

07:12.69

Varethane

I never came up with the title for it. It was all drawn in pencil, some on lined notebook paper and some on blank notebook paper. That one got to be about like 35 pages.

 

07:23.91

Krispy

Oh.

 

07:24.56

Varethane

I think I attempted the beginning of Wychwood, an unrecognizable version of it that like, if I was to share these pages, it'd be like, this is just not the same at all.

 

07:33.95

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

07:34.29

Varethane

But I tried to start it like three or four times. I think the longest attempt made it to about 10 or 12 pages before I was like, “This isn't good. I don't like it”. So I just kind of kept throwing them away.

 

07:47.69

Varethane

Then in my first year of university, I was hanging out on LiveJournal and I was writing Inuyasha fan fiction.

 

08:00.04

Varethane

And I met people through Inuyasha fan fiction, including my favorite fic author who had an idea for a webcomic and was like, I want to do a webcomic. Would you like to draw it? You draw. So I was like, yeah, let's do it.

 

08:13.44

Varethane

And so we made SevenSmith, which was technically my first proper webcomic because that was the only one that actually made it to the Internet. The other ones, I posted them on DeviantArt and I attempted

 

08:24.88

Krispy

Yes.

 

08:26.81

Varethane

to put them up on Keenspace, which was, it was still Keenspace back then. It later became Comic Genesis. It was kind of like a free, sort of like what Comic Fury is now.

 

08:38.15

Rae

Oh yeah, my first one was on Keenspace too.

 

08:38.16

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

08:43.58

Varethane

Keenspace's interface was so confusing that I tried to submit and I thought I had submitted, but then I never got a response.

 

08:49.73

Varethane

And I assumed that I had been rejected, like cruelly because they thought I sucked or something.

 

08:53.00

Rae

Oh no, they accept everything. You still have to apply, but they did pretty much accept everything.

 

08:56.91

Varethane

Yeah, I know that now. So my best guess is that I entered my email wrong or didn't enter my email or something like that.

 

09:07.08

Varethane

So I assumed that like poor Maelstrom and my poor unnamed werewolf story, they just hated them.

 

09:11.91

Krispy

Oh, no.

 

09:12.84

Varethane

So they never survived.

 

09:14.45

Star

RIP werewolfs.

 

09:16.29

Varethane

Yep. But...

 

09:17.85

Krispy

That's so sad.

 

09:19.44

Varethane

Thanks to my, you know, the writer of the webcomic that I was drawing, purchasing hosting for it, that one actually made it to the internet and was shown to people. And I became aware that people were reading it, which I think turned out to be the secret sauce at

 

09:34.50

Varethane

continuing the comic going. So while Sevensmith was going, the writer ended up getting a job and didn't have time for it anymore. And so I was like, but I still want to draw.

 

09:50.53

Varethane

I just need to use all this drawing energy on something. So Chirault, I started almost on a whim. I was like, I'm still not ready to do Wychwood, but I need to do something. So I threw together some characters and then I put it up on the same hosting that I was using for Sevensmith, just on a little subdomain.

 

10:09.08

Varethane

That's the story of my URL.

 

10:12.51

Krispy

Incredible.

 

10:13.89

Varethane

It's so silly though. Every single time I started one of these, even looking back at all those other stories, I knew I needed practice. All these other little grains of stories, they didn't make it a lot of pages, but all of them, if I had finished them, they would have also probably needed at least 500 pages to be finished.

 

10:33.63

Varethane

Every story that I come up with, like I just have a disease where they all have to be long.

 

10:39.65

Star

Shakes your damn hand.

 

10:40.52

Krispy

Yeah.

 

10:41.28

Varethane

They all need to fit at least four angsty backstories, and that's just not something you can do in less than 100 pages.

 

10:47.16

Rae

You need to let the angst marinate.

 

10:49.14

Star

You need angst space.

 

10:50.40

Rae

You need to marinate the angst.

 

10:52.25

Krispy

I like this. I think that we all are susceptible to this disease, which is going to be awesome to lead into the next question about this, because those were beautiful experiences that I absolutely resonate with.

 

11:06.68

Krispy

So... what about big idea? Should it actually be your first comic? What's your opinion? And if it is, you know, what are some traps that people fall into when they start with, you know, Chungus Among Us, the big idea?

 

11:25.85

Star

The chungus.

 

11:30.37

Star

So I feel like my answer to this question requires a follow-up question because it's like, what do we mean when we say comic?

 

11:46.48

Star

Because if we're talking specific, yeah, Krispy, you never said what your first comic was. Hey, hey.

 

11:51.56

Krispy

Oh God.

 

11:57.62

Star

Steals your gun, aims it at you.

 

11:57.65

Rae

The hunter becomes the hunted.

 

11:59.81

Krispy

Oh my god. Okay. Okay. Um, I will talk about my cringe comics. Okay. When I was a wee lad, I would do a lot of comics. I was definitely into the, uh, you know, doing an online paper, doing whatever. My first comic ever was called Molly.

 

12:20.08

Krispy

And it was about this like really crazy, sassy little girl that would just be crazy. And she was just mean and sassy. And I was like, I think I wanted to be mean and sassy when I grew up.

 

12:32.08

Krispy

I don't know. Maybe I am there. But anyway.

 

12:34.71

Star

Aspirational living.

 

12:36.67

Krispy

So I went from there and then, you know, comics is just like my thing all the time. I would always discuss stories with my sister who I still work with to this day. Our Blorboitis has grown for many years.

 

12:51.85

Krispy

And from that we were like, oh my God, like we really want to do a story about our characters. So like, oh, this is really hard to say 20 years ago. Yeah.

 

13:02.43

Krispy

Oh my god! So, over 20 years ago, we had the original idea for Ghost Junk Sickness. Characters were very inspired by Final Fantasy, Trigun, and Magic Knight Rayearth. That was like the three things in the primordial soup.

 

13:19.38

Krispy

So, you know, we would go back and forth. And you remember those composition notebooks that they would get you for like middle school? So, that's where ours were hanging out in.

 

 

13:30.49

Varethane

I think that might be the name of the things that I was writing my novels in.

 

13:33.71

Krispy

And there was like, there were like black and white and they had like the little texture on the top and they were lined paper.

 

13:35.13

Varethane

Composition, notebooks, things. Yeah, I never knew what they were called. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

13:39.55

Star

Yeah.

 

13:40.19

Krispy

They felt so good.

 

13:40.67

Rae

Yeah, I use notebook paper because I'd be like, oh, this needs an extra page.

 

13:45.83

Krispy

Oh, yeah.

 

13:46.27

Rae

Scribble.

 

13:46.81

Krispy

Yes.

 

13:47.10

Rae

And then just put it in there.

 

13:47.67

Krispy

We've totally run into that. And it's just like, well, I guess we're stuck with that, even though it's pencil. But OK, the cool thing about well, not cool, maybe cringe? I don’t know. So when we were, you know, developing the story, we, of course, came up with our own language.

 

14:05.11

Star

Yes.

 

14:05.19

Krispy

And we were so into that. Like we're in middle school. Like we're so into that. When we were writing it, my sister was drawing. So I think I drew the first version.

 

14:15.73

Krispy

And then she drew the second version. So like, that's the thing is that, you know, when you were like, oh, I'm starting like multiple times on this big idea. We have this advantage because there was two of us who were so frigging obsessed with this.

 

14:27.24

Krispy

So one would start it and then it would be like, “Oh, it's kind of, ugh.” And then the other one would start and you're like, “Okay, let's kind of get better.” And then you'd be like, “Oh, we got to stop it though.” And then it kept going until we were like, “Oh, momentum is here.”

 

14:38.15

Krispy

Anyway, made up our own original language. So when my sister did her version, she wrote the entire freaking thing in this made-up language that only me and my sister understood. And  to this day, I'm like, oh I can still read it.

 

14:47.20

Star

Oh my god!

 

14:54.65

Krispy

I was like, oh, this is funny. I mean, like it's not complicated at all. It's like switching letters. But it was just really funny to see that. So anyway, comes from that. That is so, so old.

 

15:05.53

Krispy

Did a fan comic. We kind of just went right into it. And then just, you know, slowly kind of scripted. Got a little more polished with that. With the process that's going in.

 

15:16.27

Krispy

But yeah, Ghost Junk Sickness started from 20 years ago. And then... we always start with huge ideas because we're just so obsessed with it and eventually I took it over and it became, well it didn't became, it was originally Divine Ace. I did 600 pages of it by myself and then I was like, “Hmm I think I want to start again.” So I restarted it and did another 400 pages, and then was like, “Hmm.

 

15:47.83

Krispy

I don't think it's there yet.” And then from there, I think that's when we did the fan comic and then actually started what Ghost Junk Sickness is now.

 

15:57.97

Krispy

But like that's well over a thousand pages of this project constantly started. But we'll get into the opinions of, you know, the big idea after.

 

16:08.81

Krispy

i don't personally think that I wasted any time with that. So... Oh, my lore.

 

16:16.11

Star

The lore!

 

16:18.44

Krispy

But yes, going into our next question, I am going to ask you, Star, should a big idea be your first comic, like in your opinion? And what are some traps that people fall into when they start with this massive idea?

 

16:32.71

Star

So I'm going to say my opinion on this and then I will kind of elaborate on what I mean specifically. Because I do consider myself in the camp of, don't start with your big idea. Asterisk.

 

16:47.61

Krispy

Yeah.

 

16:47.84

Star

Big crunchy asterisk on that. Because it depends on what we mean when we say the word, “comic.” Do we mean like... “Don't let your big idea be your first big attempt at a comic”?

 

17:03.93

Star

Or I always say, like, start with something small. But when I say something small, I don't mean, like, go make a whole other webcomic first.

 

17:13.07

Krispy

Yeah.

 

17:14.58

Star

What I'm specifically saying when I say start with a smaller comic is, like, your first time in any medium is going to be a little bit clumsy. And I feel like a big reason why so many webcomics struggle to stay active and like kind of struggle in the beginning and why so many like first webcomics die so quickly is because people are making their very first attempt at sequential art ever.

 

17:45.30

Star

They're tackling these big, huge projects.

 

17:47.93

Star

And then they're either... like not being satisfied with their work. They don't understand why it's not hitting. They don't realize how much work it is. And then they just stop the comic after like 10 pages or they're getting caught in that remake loop where they get 10 pages in and then they realize, oh, my skills have improved so much over these 10 pages.

 

18:09.39

Star

But I want the beginning of my webcomic to be really good. So I should go back and remake those first 10 pages. And then by the time they're done with those first 10 pages, like the remix, they're like, oh, well, my skills are even better now. And then repeat the cycle forever until they get tired and then they stop and then they don't have a webcomic anymore.

 

18:27.89

Krispy

Exactly.

 

18:28.15

Star

So... When I say start with something small, I mean specifically if you have never made comics before in general, I would advise your very first attempt at the medium be something smaller so you can cut your teeth on the stuff that's going to matter to you less.

 

18:50.63

Star

Because that just kind of makes it a little bit less emotionally distressing when the big project that you start with isn't up to snuff and where you want it to be.

 

18:59.03

Krispy

Yeah.

 

18:59.12

Star

It's like when you very first pick up knitting needles for the first time, you don't start making a sweater immediately.

 

19:07.14

Krispy

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

19:08.21

Star

You want to start like, make a square, make a scarf, make some coasters or something just to get used to knitting and the medium. And like you don't have to make like 50 coasters or like 100 scarves or anything.

 

19:25.51

Star

But, you know, just like baby steps. Baby steps. Like, do a couple of just, like, dumb little comic strips.

 

19:29.08

Krispy

Yep. yep

 

19:34.32

Star

Do, like, a handful of, like, three or four page little mini comics of just your Blorbos interacting. Just, like, write a little short story just to see if you, you know, gel with the medium. Figure things out.

 

19:49.04

Star

Don't jump in the deep end if you don't know how to swim yet. That's kind of where I'm coming from when I give the advice of don't start with your big idea. Cause you can, if you've made comics before and you really want to make a webcomic,

 

20:04.69

Star

I don't think that starting with your big idea is necessarily a bad thing if that's what you're excited about. But if you've never, ever made comics in your life and this is your very first time making comics at all, it's a surprisingly different medium than just doing static illustrations.

 

20:21.40

Krispy

Yeah.

 

20:21.52

Star

And so I would recommend, you know, like learning a bit about the medium before jumping whole hog into it, you know?

 

20:29.15

Krispy

Yeah, it reminds me of when I started beginning playing piano, and of course like you know, you want to start with easier songs to get your hands used to the keys to actually read the music, blah blah blah blah. And of course, me being a big nerd, the stuff that I really like to play is a lot of, well, specifically Final Fantasy music and all of those nice OSTs.

 

20:51.78

Star

Oh.

 

20:54.33

Krispy

So I was learning and I was like, well, I obviously want to learn this one song. And my skills were just not there. For anybody who is curious, the song is “Those Who Fight,” and it's a piano collections from Final Fantasy VII.

 

21:09.93

Krispy

And it's ridiculous for someone who just started out piano. And I'm looking at that being like, well, why doesn’t it sound good? Why can't I play it? And I'm like, hmm, maybe because I just started playing piano.

 

21:23.54

Krispy

So, you know, I was playing with songs that are simpler, things that make me get used to reading and following along and the hand movements of placements and how I'm supposed to play and I think that that lends just with comics too, is that, you know, it is its own thing, and I do think that you have to start with something less ambitious. I'll get to that later, but I want to ask Rae the same question. Should a big idea be your first webcomic, and what are some traps that people fall into?

 

21:56.39

Rae

Okay, so I'm kind of of the mind that if you have an idea that's just not going to leave your head, it's probably trying to tell you something, and you should probably do it.

 

22:10.44

Rae

Especially since if you sit on it, your feelings might change on that. You might—It'll essentially alter and change as you go through life.

 

22:22.36

Rae

So... If you want that snapshot, it's probably best to get it out as much as possible. The thing with, say, like the magnum opus is that's the accumulation of your work.

 

22:35.72

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

22:37.99

Rae

Usually you don't choose that. That just happens naturally as you gain experience. And I'm also just like, these ideas aren't always going anywhere. You can always revisit it.

 

22:52.05

Rae

You can either redo it or revisit the themes and storyline with other characters, even at a later date. I know a few authors that will tell the same stories over and over again, but that's what they want to do.

 

23:08.62

Rae

So it's not like you can use a plot line and then, poof, it's gone. You can't ever use it again. So I'm kind of of the mind that, yes, if you have a big idea, you probably do want to build your muscles.

 

23:23.38

Rae

Because I do see a lot of people that just sit on their big idea going, “Oh, but I don't know how to draw very well.” And then they work on drawings, but it's all static illustrations and they never actually make a comic.

 

23:33.24

Krispy

Yes. Yeah.

 

23:37.21

Rae

Which, that comic... You learn how to make them by doing and figuring out what works and what doesn't.

 

23:49.26

Rae

And another thing that I tend to find the people that sit on them tend to do is they have this ideal and this big idea becomes this nebulous ideal that they are working toward.

 

24:06.84

Rae

And as they get better, this idea gets better, but it actually doesn't exist. So they can't really know if it's better or not than what they're working on now. So it's kind of like they're comparing something that actually exists to something that doesn't.

 

24:26.43

Krispy

Yeah. I think one of the biggest pieces of advice I'd love to give folks getting into anything, honestly, is to just really hold your inspirations close so that it can help keep you not moving those goalposts all the time. Because I know that, you know, seeing other people post their webcomics,

 

24:46.33

Krispy

talk about their success whatever. Like I understand, jealousy is a normal thing. Feeling bad about your work is a normal thing. Like that's all things that we experience, but it is something that we can, you know, control with how we kind of deal with it. So I think goalposts and not shifting them when you see other things constantly and not in a way where you're like, I'm inspired and I want to do that now. Like not necessarily that, but like the core thing to remind you,

 

25:12.80

Krispy

why you started this, I think that's really important. And I'm going to go back to my piano theory again, because in learning piano, one of my biggest pieces of music that I've always wanted to learn was, you know, again, another piece from the Final Fantasy Piano Collections, It was Aerith’s theme. And I was like, okay, I'm going to learn piano as much as I can.

 

25:34.19

Krispy

And I had that set of music sheets always beside me. I couldn't play it yet, but they were always near me being like, this is why I'm playing because I want to play the song. And it was a good reminder.

 

25:47.18

Krispy

And I try to do that with art, too, where, you know, I have things that are reminding me of like, OK, like what was the core thing that made me start this? And when am I going to reflect and look at, you know, what I'm kind of making stuff so that I'm not constantly pulling all of these ideas and being like, well, now I want to do that.

 

26:04.76

Krispy

Oh, well, now I want to do that. Oh, and then you're kind of beating yourself over the head with these shifting goalposts and expectations.

 

26:12.23

Krispy

So it's interesting. Yeah. Here we go. I'm going after you, Thane. Look out!

 

26:19.84

Varethane

Oh, no.

 

26:21.10

Varethane

Well, I feel like a big part of what I kind of wanted to say, Rae actually covered a chunk of it because the whole like comparing a thing that actually exists with an idea that doesn't exist, like the two are just never the same.

 

26:40.29

Varethane

So getting practice in reconciling creatively with what your actual work looks like,

 

26:48.37

Krispy

Yes. Mm-hmm.

 

26:48.74

Varethane

is really important in terms of webcomics, any artistic endeavor, but because webcomics take so long, and you have to put so much work into it, I think it's something that is really important to kind of do.

 

27:03.00

Varethane

With regards to starting with the big idea, I wrote notes and they look extremely funny because it is a toss-up and there's like five paragraphs in a row that just start with “but.”

 

27:16.21

Varethane

So it's always a toss-up to be worth doing it all because it's so much work and you're doing it for free. You really have to want it. Like, you got to love it.

 

27:24.57

Krispy

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

27:25.33

Varethane

So if that big idea is the thing that you love, if that's what gives you the juice and nothing else does, like you think about doing something different and you just can't, you just never start, OK, do it.

 

27:37.38

Varethane

Pursue where the passion is. Like, I do feel strongly about that one. But this is where that perfect is the enemy of the finished or even of the good. Because if you need to be too precious about it, well, if it's going to exist at all, it has to be perfect.

 

27:55.86

Varethane

It has to match what's in my head.

 

27:55.97

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

27:57.88

Varethane

You do have to realize that it won't. It's just not really, it's not really possible. I mean, maybe if, maybe for people who have that  photographic memory thing and are able to perfectly draw exactly that.

 

28:14.28

Varethane

But I feel like that sort of thing is fairly rare. And also like the impact of the story itself is the culmination of every single page and every single panel and every single little expression.

 

28:26.77

Varethane

You might find that as you work on a story, especially a really, really long one, that your own perception of your characters and your plot and your worldbuilding will also start to change because new stuff will just occur to you because now you're working on it, because you can see it physically on the page.

 

28:44.92

Varethane

It just hits different inherently.

 

28:46.80

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

28:47.81

Varethane

And it probably is going to end up being very different from that original concept. And depending on how much of a problem that is, it can be very painful.

 

28:58.60

Varethane

Or it can be kind of freeing to just be like, well, this is what I'm working on. This creation that I'm making that exists now, being able to look back on it as a whole.

 

29:12.17

Varethane

The third but in my notes is that if you do feel like things are going bad, you could do it over. If you feel like you need to.

 

29:19.74

Krispy

Yeah.

 

29:20.80

Varethane

The cops won't come. Nobody's going to call the webcomic police.

 

29:25.28

Star

Woo!

 

29:25.36

Varethane

Then the fourth one, the fourth but, is that, that is the road that leads the infinite reboot loop, which we have definitely talked about on there. The fifth one...

 

29:36.79

Krispy

there's some pony butts

 

29:37.05

Varethane

Yeah, it's a lot of butts. My note taking style is very, very bizarre for this episode. The fifth one, I think, is something that really kind of became apparent to me specifically while I was working on Chirault in particular, just because that comic took 11 years to make and it is twelve hundred sixty seven pages long.

 

30:01.05

Varethane

There's a lot of it. And I found that as I was working on it, because of that huge span of time, I changed as a person, and my tastes also changed, and my inspirations also changed.

 

30:16.63

Varethane

So the things that I was picturing at the very beginning of the story, when I was trying to figure out, like, what am I going to be doing? Like, where are these characters going to go? When I reread those outlines halfway through, and I think I've talked about this on previous Screen Tones episodes, too, after five years of Chirault, I was like, I need to start going towards the end game.

 

30:36.89

Varethane

What did I have planned for that again? Let's go to notes. And I pulled up my outline and I read through it and I was like, ah, I don't like this. So I threw it out and I started over with new ideas that mattered more to me based directly on what was actually happening on the page to the characters that I was drawing.

 

30:55.41

Varethane

Now that I felt like I knew them much better than I ever did when they were just ephemeral concepts in my head that had never been laid down.

 

31:01.68

Krispy

Yeah.

 

31:04.17

Krispy

Yeah. I absolutely love that. I think that's a great point.

 

31:08.08

Star

Fun fact, the whole thing about looking at your outline and not being excited about what's coming up, that's one of the things that killed my first real attempt at a webcomic.

 

31:19.47

Krispy

Oh.

 

31:19.53

Star

Womp womp.

 

31:19.55

Rae

That's a mood. I can understand that.

 

31:24.09

Varethane

Yeah, I think that whole like that desire to be really perfect and precious and plan every single little thing ahead of time before you actually have put pen to paper and started drawing a single page, I feel like that—

 

31:38.66

Varethane

It's not just a mistake for me personally. I feel like if I was to do that and attempt to do it in full, I wouldn't say I would consider it a waste of time, but like I would not hold myself to that outline after I was actually underway.

 

31:54.44

Varethane

Because at a certain point, if I think of a better idea, I'm always going to reserve the right to pursue that better idea. And I will think of better things.

 

31:59.38

Krispy

Yeah, you made a really good point, though, because you talked about the fact that making the comic, you're going to start to learn and know your characters better than what they started out with.

 

32:11.34

Krispy

And 100% feel that because the way that Space and I work, my co-creator, is that we do have everything written out, not detail to detail and it's very minute, but we have, you know, okay what we want. Here's the starting middle end, blah, blah, blah, blah. And currently, you know, we wrote the entirety of Lunar Blight.

 

32:31.19

Krispy

And now we're in rewrites because we're like, we're like, okay, well, you know, what chapter is this? Okay. We're going to look at that. What's the ending? Oh, okay, we're going to redo this. And it's just, yeah, things are changing. And I think like, and that's cool. That's cool that you're learning more about yourself. You're changing as a person and like that will change with it. So I think it's a really good point to just not be too precious about this stuff because you will change, your work will change and that's okay.

 

32:58.50

Krispy

We're not, we're not, we're not going to call the webcomic police. We're not narcs. We're not going to do it.

 

33:05.71

Star

Haha!

 

33:05.81

Krispy

They're not going to come for you.

 

33:09.43

Rae

Or are they?

 

33:10.38

Krispy

Don't say that.

 

33:13.12

Rae

They're coming for you, Krispy.

 

33:15.48

Krispy

No! I can't go back to jail! So I think that leads really nicely into our final question, which is going to be full of opinions in life and all that.

 

33:30.56

Krispy

What is your biggest piece of advice when someone who has the big idea says that they're really, really passionate about, but they want to go about making it in a sustainable and healthy way?

 

33:45.62

Krispy

Star, let's chat.

 

33:48.66

Star

Well, you talk about sustainable and healthy. Maybe don't make it full color. if you don't like color, maybe you don't have to make it in color. It's just one thing that might make things a little easier on you, just not doing… Listen, manga's all done in black and white, and you don't hear their readers complaining. Why do I get so many people in my comment section being like, I have to make my webcomic in color, but I hate coloring. No, you don't.

 

34:13.69

Krispy

Oh my gosh.

 

34:14.55

Star

No, you don't. You don't.

 

34:16.71

Rae

I definitely have opinions on this too.

 

34:19.93

Star

Oh, the floor is yours, please. I want to hear these opinions before we get off topic.

 

34:22.85

Rae

Oh man. Okay. So my first webcomic, I originally did in color. Okay. And then I tried to reboot it and I did it in black and white in traditional media. It was all fully in mechanical pencil.

 

34:40.52

Star

Oh my god.

 

34:41.33

Rae

It was actually more popular that way.

 

34:44.28

Star

Ooh.

 

34:45.57

Krispy

Delicious.

 

34:47.19

Star

Interesting.

 

34:47.71

Rae

It does not need to be in color.

 

34:50.72

Varethane

I think part of the thing—I'm not sure whether—I don't have a source to cite on this other than I remember being told it a while ago. But if I recall, Webtoon really wanted their originals to all be in color.

 

35:06.32

Varethane

And there was a lot of pressure, especially on that platform, that it has to be in color in order to get featured, in order to get lots of subscribers. And to some extent, I do see it a bit in the subscriber numbers on that platform.

 

35:18.83

Krispy

I mean, you make a good point because guess what? They're recoloring Full Metal Alchemist right now.

 

35:25.42

Varethane

Oh my God.

 

35:25.74

Star

What?!

 

35:26.70

Krispy

They're recoloring. Actually, so there's no recoloring. They are coloring Full Metal Alchemist for more subscribers on Webtoon.

 

35:33.61

Star

Wait, wait, whoa, who who whoa, whoa, Fullmetal Alchemist is on Webtoon?!

 

35:36.80

Varethane

bonkers.

 

35:38.03

Krispy

Yes.

 

35:38.82

Rae

Yeah, it happened last month, if I recall.

 

35:41.90

Star

I'm googling this so I can get mad.

 

35:47.10

Varethane

And that's the thing, it's gotta be in color.

 

35:49.29

Star

Why is it so crunchy?

 

35:51.90

Krispy

It's very crunchy.

 

35:55.10

Star

Did they just, what is, why is it so crunchy though?

 

35:58.26

Krispy

And they changed like the title. It looks like a shounen. More shounen specific. Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry editors! We gotta talk about this!

 

36:08.30

Star

What did they do to my boy?

 

36:09.84

Krispy

Yeah.

 

36:11.70

Star

Hang on here. I'm dropping the link in voice chat. What did they do to my boys? Why are they so crunchy?

 

36:35.87

Star

Did they trace it in MS paint? Why are the lines so jagged?

 

36:38.73

Krispy

It's bad. They've blown up the art in indescribable ways. I think that's going to be a good topic for wire format. Sorry, we're going off topic. I'll talk about this after, but I'm so sorry I have hurt you, Star, with this information, it's bad.

 

36:58.50

Varethane

Cursed knowledge that can never be unlearned.

 

36:58.62

Star

What have they done to my boy?

 

37:01.41

Krispy

Yeah. Yeah. But to your point, Thane...

 

37:07.29

Star

Oh I'm in the corner rotting like a fungus for the entire rest of this episode.

 

37:14.25

Krispy

There is that expectation that, like, folks who are making webcomics these days, I sound like such a boomer when I say it, but whatever, I'm owning it, feel like they have to do color to grab attention. And it was stuff that I have run into as someone who has done black and white comics, and I will never change that.

 

37:33.39

Krispy

Sorry, people who are mad that want me to change that. It's just not going to happen.

 

37:37.84

Star

Those people are weak and you should kill them with a shotgun.

 

37:37.94

Krispy

Um...

 

37:40.20

Star

I mean, in Minecraft.

 

37:42.60

Krispy

In Minecraft. I'll destroy your houses in Minecraft.

 

37:44.25

Star

In Minecraft.

 

37:47.54

Varethane

Destroy them in PvP.

 

37:51.64

Star

Number one, victory royale, because all these little—said that I needed to do my comic in color.

 

37:57.45

Krispy

Yeah.

 

37:57.59

Star

Shows what they know.

 

37:59.35

Krispy

And it is a common sentiment of younger people who are just not into, I don't know, manga—manga rocks—thinking that things need to be colored because it's just more eye-catching because it's just more pretty. Well, I want to see like these characters do this and that and the other thing.

 

38:15.34

Krispy

One of my things that are really entertaining and fun when we do illustrations is people finding out what the colors are of characters. There's one character that we have in chapter seven and he has like, he honestly looks like one of the Powerpuff Girls enemies.

 

38:31.76

Krispy

Oh what are they called? Oh, the Gangreen Gang. Or plankton.

 

38:36.91

Star

Yeah.

 

38:38.19

Krispy

So anyway, he's green and he's got black hair and the yellow eye and stuff like that. And people were like, thought was purple for some reason. Like, this story isn't black and white, but I really got purple vibes. I'm just like, this is great.

 

38:50.55

Krispy

I love this.

 

38:51.71

Star

Purple vibes.

 

38:54.94

Varethane

I feel like there's a lot of pressure in webcomics nowadays, Like webcomics of all places, like the absolute Wild West side of like storytelling and art on the Internet, where it has to be so pro and polished and be this product that can, you know, sell real books and make a gajillion dollars on ads or something like that.

 

39:18.18

Varethane

Like there's a lot of pressure to take this in a professional direction.

 

39:22.04

Varethane

And I think that it's, for people who are just jumping in for the first time, it's not really realistic. Like that's not a standard that you should hold it up to.

 

39:31.15

Varethane

At the time that I got started in webcomics, there were some really cool comics out there, but the bar for entry felt lower.

 

39:44.76

Varethane

Even though the bar for entry has not fundamentally changed, it's still just as easy to draw something and put it on the internet as it was like, you know, oh, God, I don't want to say how long ago it has been now.

 

39:56.89

Krispy

Redacted.

 

39:57.30

Varethane

Anyway, it's still very easy to put a story online. Nobody will stop you from doing it. But I feel like people perceive it as being this huge undertaking that they need to take seriously and treat like a job.

 

40:10.79

Varethane

And I don't think that's really fair. It's a little off topic, but yeah, strong feelings about this.

 

40:14.07

Krispy

No, I think it is on.

 

40:16.19

Krispy

It's on topic because, you know, one of the things about starting that big idea is that a lot of people are self-conscious about the wrong things, which are, you know, they're starting the webcomic and you're like, okay, but how come I don't have like 100 subscribers already? And it's just like, why are you paying attention to that, Brenda?

 

40:30.58

Krispy

That's not about this.

 

40:31.85

Star

I'm going to eat Webtoon.

 

40:33.50

Rae

I think one of the things that a lot of people don't realize too is a lot of these big polished webcomics that are online are not the first attempt for the creators.

 

40:45.03

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

40:46.39

Star

Mm-hmm.

 

40:46.45

Rae

Thane was talking about how they drew Wychwood before and I'm reworking older characters into a new comic.

 

40:57.59

Rae

Krispy's done... had like proto Ghost Junk Sickness comics out there. The polish needs to come with the work like you need to put the work in to get that, and if you're if it doesn't exist that's not going to happen

 

41:15.99

Krispy

I think it's also about sharing space with folks that are growing with you, too, and encouraging that growth. And I know it's difficult. And I feel like I would go through the same traps that I'm seeing a lot of younger creators go through these days where they're just constantly comparing themselves to like people they want to be, but in like the worst ways, not like learning from it, just being like, well why don't I have that?

 

41:41.47

Krispy

And I think that that's something you need to abandon. If you want to be sustainable or healthy about this, you have to abandon checking out other people's homework in a way that compares your work to theirs and constantly wanting that. You can feel sad about it. You can feel jealous.

 

41:58.12

Krispy

Again, those are normal things, but like that cannot be the driving force. That can't be something that just weighs you down. And you know, it is hard work to get rid of those shackles and be like, okay, you know I'm just going to freaking focus on what I'm doing.

 

42:14.70

Krispy

And I think the posting on stuff like Webtoons that has those numbers that make people feel that they are in a competition just does not help.

 

42:26.16

Krispy

It just does not help at all. Like when I was doing all of my comics before and I was posting my webcomics on DeviantArt because that's my place.

 

42:36.60

Krispy

That's where I was. Yeah, I get some few comments, maybe, but I never, that was not the driving thing. I did it because I had the disease and I had to post these out of my brain.

 

42:48.98

Star

The sickness, if you will.

 

42:50.94

Krispy

If they were not out of my brain and on paper like that was an issue because I couldn't stop talking about them and that's why I make comics, is because I have to just evict these blorbos from my head.

 

43:08.53

Star

Exorcise.

 

43:09.41

Krispy

Yeah. And I think Thane said it, having that passion has to drive that. You know, if your big idea is just strangling you and it's like, let me out. Like, you could do it.

 

43:24.18

Krispy

You're allowed. But, you know, with some of the advice that was said in this episode, you could do small chunks of it. You could do like mini parts of it. But know that this is also you learning too.

 

43:36.23

Krispy

And learning is the—that's the most precious part of all of this is that we're learning as we're doing it And you're just going to get better. You're just going to have to have cringe art.

 

43:48.29

Rae

And the learning never stops either.

 

43:50.68

Krispy

Yes.

 

43:51.17

Rae

It never stops.

 

43:51.21

Star

Yeah, I mean, I think you said it best at like close to the start of the episode where it's like, yeah, you did like six, 700 pages of these attempts at comics that ultimately got rebooted, but none of that work was wasted.

 

44:04.17

Krispy

Yeah.

 

44:04.21

Star

And that's something that I try and preach to people too, is like, listen, every single drawing is, it's like gardening, right?

 

44:12.75

Krispy

Yeah.

 

44:13.41

Star

You know, like sometimes your veggies don't grow the way they want to, but those plants become fertilizer for what comes next.

 

44:20.55

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

44:21.31

Star

And so like every page of comics that you draw is fertilizer. It's learning. It's improving your skills so that you will get better as you go on. Your first attempt at a comic is not going to look as good as your 10th.

 

44:35.09

Star

Your first comic page is not going to look good as your 20th. Your 20th page is going to look worse, arguably, than your 100th comic page. But that's just what this is.

 

44:46.39

Star

That's what the medium is. That's what being an artist is, is slowly, gradually getting better by, you know, putting out something mediocre and then getting better and learning from it and then taking steps towards improving it for the next time.

 

45:04.35

Krispy

Yeah, exactly that. And I think that when I think about this advice, one of the things that I always like to remind folks when deconstructing it, too, is that you'll see it a lot on social media being like, don't start with your big idea, start with something small. And like Star was saying, like, not necessarily meaning a shorter comic or like a short story.

 

45:24.22

Krispy

But I think to me, the advice should be more about expectations. Don't start out with massive expectations that you're going to be the next

 

45:35.85

Krispy

huge massive hit original. You know, don't start out with those expectations because that's hard on you. That is a lot. Start with smaller expectations. That's the biggest part. Your smaller expectations is like, you know what? I think I hit five pages and I think that's good for me for this project and that's good because that's an expectation that you kind of set for yourself it's a little smaller.

 

45:59.48

Krispy

But that's okay. And it could be parts from your giant story of your Blorbos that are strangling to get out of your brain. Or it could be something else. But I think expectations is key here when we talk about this advice, when you see it on social media.

 

46:16.52

Krispy

And even when people are incorrectly saying, like, “Just don't start with your big story. Write short stories.” Personally, and don't care if people disagree. I think that's incorrect.

 

46:28.41

Krispy

I think that, like we've said several times in this episode, the passion is what drives you. And I personally can't write short stories to save myself. It is so hard. It's a different skill set too.

 

46:42.44

Krispy

Like that's telling your brain.

 

46:43.07

Star

Yeah, have the long story disease. Yeah.

 

46:44.51

Krispy

I do. so I do have a long story disease.

 

46:47.54

Varethane

High five.

 

46:49.92

Krispy

it's hard. It is a completely different skill set to do short stories than opposed to long ones because it's different ways of storytelling. It's different ways of conveying information.

 

47:00.92

Krispy

And it's just like, if I just want to do my giant story and it's going to look a little cringe, I don't care because I'm doing my giant story and I'm obsessed with these OCs and it doesn't need to be this most perfect polished “oh my god, this is gonna get an award”—like, that's nice but no this is—I gotta get rid of the disease.

 

47:21.32

Varethane

I've tried to make short stories because I do feel like it's such a different skill. I feel like it's a valuable one and I want to learn it. So every so often I get like a little bug and I'll try to make a short story.

 

47:35.59

Varethane

And a lot of the short stories that I make fundamentally, it always feels like they're straining a little bit. Like they're a short story, but they really want a second chapter or like a something, something else.

 

47:47.75

Varethane

I feel like I'm getting a little bit better at it. But a lot of my first short stories, they just read like the first six pages of a chapter, and then they would sort of end in an unsatisfactory way.

 

47:58.81

Varethane

Like it just, you know, they didn't really feel super complete. And by practicing doing it, I've slowly improved at actually making short stories that truly are short.

 

48:07.08

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

 

48:09.09

Varethane

And I don't feel like I wasted any time or something by doing those initial ones, because I never would have gotten better if I had not done those. But it's definitely, it's real, like a good short story—I'm so impressed.

 

48:22.77

Varethane

Like whenever I read one, I'm like, damn.

 

48:26.11

Rae

Yeah, I think short stories are good as, like, flexing on limiting scope. And I do think that is something that you definitely need to do when you get to your big idea, because so much of us have scope creep.

 

48:44.01

Rae

Even if we have long stories, we want to make them longer.

 

48:48.27

Krispy

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

48:48.43

Rae

So short stories do really help in editing and trying to figure out what is actually necessary to put in there.

 

48:59.87

Rae

But yes, I also have long story disease. So… yeah.

 

49:05.89

Star

Listen, I too, we're all shaking hands here with long story disease.

 

49:10.13

Star

My rebuttal for that is that when I say short story, personally, what I mean is like, just draw a single scene. Just like draw that one cool scene that you've got in your head.

 

49:22.13

Star

Just draw that. I do so—like, so many pages of my sketchbook is just like one page, just funny interactions between such and such characters.

 

49:23.23

Krispy

Yeah.

 

49:35.40

Star

Because it's like, I just want to get the brain worms for this one specific scene out of my head.

 

49:40.43

Krispy

Yes.

 

49:40.71

Star

And it's just like one or two pages of just, like, this silly little thing. It doesn't have to have a whole beginning, middle, and end.

 

49:46.95

Krispy

Nope.

 

49:47.25

Star

Sometimes you just want to draw the blorbos yeah getting made fun of by other blorbos because they're cringe. And it's funny. And you're just having a good time. You want to draw your socially anxious character having a socially anxious experience and having a giggle about it because it's like, aw baby. Sometimes you can just draw that. When I say short story, you can just draw your characters being silly.

 

50:08.82

Krispy

Yeah.

 

50:08.84

Star

You can just draw like one or two pages of a little thing. It doesn't have to be like a whole, finely put together story. You can just, you can just draw your characters doing fun shit and it's fine.

 

50:19.66

Krispy

Yeah. You are the master of your own domain at the end of the day. And like Thane was saying, the bar of entry into webcomics is fundamentally still the same.

 

50:33.30

Krispy

There's that expectation that is unfortunately going along with what's going on with the webcomic sphere right now. But, you know, you can just, you can, you can.

 

50:44.80

Krispy

And you should. You should just draw your blorbos in a comic and just do whatever. And you know what? You know what I’m going to say? It doesn't have to be posted online. I think that you could just keep it to yourself and learn from that too.

 

51:00.14

Krispy

And if you're like, you know what, this is fire. Sure. Share it with the world. Just know that, you know, you can do these things. You can craft these stories.

 

51:11.49

Krispy

You can have all of this fun with webcomics, but just understand the expectations that you're putting yourself through.

 

51:19.59

Rae

Krispy is advocating for your webcomics to not be on the web. The webcomic police are really going to come after you now.

 

51:26.33

Krispy

oh

 

51:30.65

Varethane

Yeah, unfortunately.

 

51:34.07

Krispy

Did you just web your comic?

 

51:37.92

Star

We found you in violation of not webbing your comic. You're under arrest.

 

51:42.28

Varethane

You know what? Dolphin Sound U un-webs your comic.

 

51:45.84

Star

No!

 

51:46.20

Krispy

Oh my god.

 

51:50.48

Star

Unwebs your comic, just like kills your hosting.

 

51:57.42

Varethane

Another word for that is a DDoS attack, but anyway.

 

52:02.54

Star

DDoS stands for... something.

 

52:27.54

Krispy

So I think that that has been a chicken salad Caesar wrap, classic wrap and delicious, or buffalo one. I'm really into the spice.

 

52:37.77

Star

Make up your mind!

 

52:40.07

Krispy

I've been Krispy and you can find my work at ghostjunksickness.com or lunarblight.com.

 

52:47.14

Star

And I've been Star the whole time. You can find my comics at castoff-comic.com.

 

52:53.95

Rae

And I've been Rae, and you can find my comic On Empyrean High at EmpyreanComic.com and Overlord of Ravenfell on Webtoon.

 

53:05.47

Varethane

And I am Varethane. And you can find my webcomics at chirault.sevensmith.net and at wychwoodcomic.com.

 

53:15.83

Krispy

Are you sure you guys are the people you say you are? I'm a little scared right now. Who's in the chat with me? no.

 

53:23.51

Varethane

Some call me Thane.

 

53:24.88

Star

It's actually, actually Sam Reich. That's why I keep saying that at the end of the episode. Dun, dun, dun.