00:26.71

Star

Hello and welcome to Claire, where we talk anything and everything webcomics. Today, we're going to be talking about our favorite characters from our webcomics and why they take over our brains the way they do. I'm Star, I use she, her pronouns, and I make the webcomic Cast Off.

00:45.43

Bob

I'm Bob, I use any pronouns, and I make the webcomics Into the Smoke and Demon of the Underground.

00:51.37

Claire

I'm Claire, also known as Clam. My pronouns are she, her. I make the webcomic Phantomarine.

00:56.89

Star

Radical. Okay, so all of us here may or may not have one or more characters that we favor in our webcomics, that we rotate in our minds slightly more than the other characters. We're gonna borrow the term Blorbo for whoever this is in your webcomic project, but webcomics take time, if you didn't know that, and telling a compelling story might make it so that you go a couple of scenes, sometimes even years, without that exciting Blorbo in the story.

01:26.01

Star

So let's talk about that itch, that compulsion, because it can be a major motivating factor that keeps you fueled in your comic journey, but it can also be a roadblock when you're making parts of the story that don't involve them.

01:39.10

Star

So our opening question is, what are your experiences with the Blorbo obsession? Which of your comics characters are currently in your brain or were in your brain in the past?

01:50.58

Star

And how did they get there? And I'm throwing the Blorbo to Bob.

01:55.96

Bob

And I have been hit in the face with the blorbo so hard.

01:58.59

Star

Oh god! Violence!

02:01.56

Bob

Yes.

02:01.94

Claire

What sound does the blorbo make when it hits your face?

02:05.18

Bob

Kind of like, who you know, yeah.

02:06.42

Claire

Oh!

02:07.80

Bob

Just, yeah, just kind of get the wind blown out of him a little bit.

02:07.96

Star

Oh, so violent.

02:11.64

Bob

That's it.

02:12.31

Star

ah

02:12.54

Bob

ah Okay, so rolling up my sleeves, literally. So I have two big Blorbo's that I kind of want to talk about because they have very different roles in their respective stories. So the way that I dealt with them was very different. So my first Blorbo is Belmont.

02:33.02

Bob

And Belmont is from my webcomic Demon of the Underground. He's really just barely from my webcomic Demon of the Underground because he's basically like presented in this story as a kind of minor annoying antagonist who doesn't have a very big or meaningful character arc in that particular story. He's mostly there just to kind of cause trouble for the characters who the story is actually about.

02:57.62

Bob

But he's just so fun to write. And I was like, ah, like I need to write more of this guy. and so I did what I often do, which is I like to wind down at night by just, you know, dabbling in a little prose on my little laptop until I'm too tired to write sentences that make any sense. And so I was doing that for one of the other major characters in in the story, Merit. I was just kind of dabbling at his backstory and his backstory is where he interacts with Belmont.

03:28.86

Bob

And, you know, I was just like dabbling and dabbling. And then I was like 100,000 words in like, oh, my God, this is turning into an actual story. So then like I was like, OK, well, then I'm going to turn this into a formal thing.

03:43.02

Bob

So I did it as an actual serialized novel series on Patreon and it ended up being by far my most popular Patreon extra ever.

03:53.54

Bob

I think it brought in something like 150 patrons when it launched, not not in one day, but like in a relatively short span of time.

04:01.73

Star

Cheers.

04:02.01

Bob

Yeah, yeah, I was like, oh, no, now I really have to do this. But the funny thing is that, you know, Belmont is one of the main characters in this side story. I think in Demon of the Underground, the webcomic, he has maybe appeared on like 20 pages, and he is literally never gonna be a major character in this story. So I was like, well, whatever Blorbo energy I have for this guy, I have to get it out in the side stories because it's not coming out in the comic. And so, you know, I wrote, there it's a three book series. I finished the first two, pandemic kind of derailed me, but I've gotten 360 something thousand words into this story.

04:41.18

Bob

So the readers who have read Merit's story, this side story, have such a different impression of this Blorbo than anyone else who's reading just canon Demon of the Underground. Every time he appears on the page, like his fans are like, oh, it's Belmont, he did this little thing. And then everyone else is like, why does anyone care about this a-hole? He's annoying. So that's Belmont. The the other big Blorbo

05:12.38

Bob

is in my new webcomic, Into the Smoke. And Into the Smoke has three main characters, Blaze the medium, Judd the priest, and Alistair the evil ghost. And Judd doesn't appear much in the first two chapters. And he is the Blorbo that I can't wait to write about because he's one of my three favorite characters. And he is not going to become very prominent until chapter three. And when I say chapter three, my chapters are like 100 plus pages long. so I'm halfway through chapter two, but there's still a little while before I get to actually write about this guy. And so again, I'm doing these little prose side stories, just to keep myself sane. I'm doing a lot of Patreon illustrations, where it's like, hey, look at this picture of this guy you don't care about yet, because you know nothing about him. And, and, and so like, I have to get it out, but I can't

06:05.46

Bob

I have to be so much more measured about it because he is going to be a big part. He's one of the three main characters. And I can't get out all my steam on these side stories and side things because I don't want to get bored and not have the steam for when he appears in the actual story. So it's like, I'm going through Judd withdrawal. I gotta i gotta to write him, but I just, I can't yet. And I don't know what to do. And so now I got to throw it to someone else because I'm all shaking. so ah

06:35.80

Star

The Blorbo rabies.

06:35.90

Bob

yeah

06:37.37

Claire

Oh no!

06:45.18

Star

I feel like all of us are familiar at least somewhat with the I. I have this Blorbo, I want to get to them, but it's just it's the kind of thing you just want to chew on the drywall, I swear to God.

06:58.20

Claire

I have this wonderful son! You can't see him yet, but please! Please be prepared!

07:02.07

Star

someday you will!

07:03.54

Bob

take my word for it, he's so good. if

07:06.21

Star

Please help me bite your arm. I'm not rabid, I promise.

07:09.83

Bob

And that's how the blurb of rabies spreads.

07:12.02

Star

Yes, yes, with the biting.

07:13.91

Bob

Yes.

07:14.33

Star

ah What about you, Clam? Tell us about your Blorbos.

07:18.22

Claire

Oh gosh. I have an interesting Blorbo journey because when I was 10 or so, I started writing what I thought was going to be like my masterpiece. But, it's not it's not advisable to go into any writing when you're 10 years old being l ike, this is going to be the best thing I ever write. It's going to be more exploratory. But I had a story that now I look at it and I'm like, I can see all of the connected elements that I like from now in my webcomic. But back then it was like all these kind of disparate elements. But I had one character that I wrote that was basically like a combination of all of these different tropes I liked around villains and like stories revolving around villains. I stole a lot of things from cartoons and books and movies that I liked, and I basically put them in a blender. And I was like, this is awesome. And I love this. And that character, interestingly, like, you would think, knowing me, that that character was , straight up, a through line to my current Blorbo, who is Cheth, my...

08:31.93

Claire

really like ah god the whole comic is based around this character it's a problem but it's interesting how i actually recognized later on that that initial character that i had from my story when i was 10 actually got split into two different characters and it is the two gods in my story it's Cheth and Chelene. And Cheth is super fun, you like kind of tragic, all these elements of sad wet cat man who is also like a genie and it's awesome. But I was surprised in that, I almost created not an anti-blorbo in that, I don't like her, but more like if Cheth is like a supernova in terms of creativity and me thinking about him, Chelene is like a black hole.

09:23.74

Claire

where they're both from the same kind of root character, which is like a tragic villain. But one is like, tragic, haha, let's have fun with it. And then one is tragic, like, I truly am tragedy.

09:38.52

Claire

I am a tragedy. I am actually a bad person but why am I a bad person why am I like this? So like I've kind of fallen into this sense of I i look at Cheth and I'm like that is that is my Blorbo that is the character that the whole comic is truly like built for but Chelene kind of came up and i'm i I kind of rotate her in my head more like like what's wrong with you like you're Like, you're you're so... You're such a problem, and you have so many problems, and you could fix all of these problems, and you don't.

10:18.52

Claire

And I've kind of... Yeah, I've been so kind of taken aback also just by people's reactions to her, because I kind of feel like we've all had the same journey. We're like, we entered the comic with, oh, wow, this character is fun. Like, ooh, the red devil guy He's great, but...

10:35.64

Claire

Oh, his sister is there in the back corner, like glaring at me. i also want to know about her. And I'm like, yeah, I kind of do too. And it's, it's actually very funny. Like a writing exercise that I've thought about a lot is, okay, like you take your characters to a museum and you set them free or you walk around with them, kind of imagining walking around with them and like, how do they behave? And like, Cheth is looking at everything being like, wow, this is so fascinating. This is fun. I actually love looking at all of this history. I remember this. And Chelene is just smoking, glaring at things.

11:10.65

Claire

Then she just walks to the cafe and sits there and just does not want to interact with anybody and hates everyone in the building. And I'm just like, these are both blorbos.

11:22.01

Claire

One is the fun one and one is the tragic one and the awful one. And I, I, yeah, I think about that a lot in just like, I didn't even expect.

11:32.76

Claire

I was surprised by how much I think about even one that I don't like as much, but I love thinking about her. It's really interesting.

11:45.24

Star

The duality of Blorbism.

11:49.43

Claire

We have many kinds.

11:51.48

Star

See, the thing for me now is that when you describe Chelene that way, I'm just thinking about the one character from The Devil Wears Prada, the titular devil, if you will.

12:00.38

Claire

Yes. Yes. It's exactly like that where, like, she will she will absolutely destroy you with only 20 words and you'll go home crying. But, like, everybody loves Miranda Priestly. Like, they don't love her as a person. If you actually actually had to work under her, like... No, but when you're in a safe environment from a safe distance with the screen between you, you're like, this is a fascinating human. This is awful. I need to watch more.

12:32.63

Star

I am so sorry for the words I'm about to say. I feel the same way about Junkrat from Overwatch.

12:38.81

Claire

I understand and I appreciate you.

12:39.32

Star

yeah

12:42.01

Claire

you want to elaborate, think we would all love that.

12:46.65

Star

I would never want to be in the same room with that little freak, but God, he's fun to play. And I'm just like, what is wrong with you? I don't want to fix it. I just want to know.

12:57.02

Claire

I want you to get worse, actually, just a little bit.

12:58.65

Star

Yeah, a little bit worse, yeah.

13:01.99

Bob

Well, I think that's part of the Bloorbo magic is that they can get away with anything and we can't ever get away with what the Bloorbo can get away with.

13:09.62

Claire

Yes.

13:09.91

Bob

And it's kind of tragic.

13:12.54

Star

This is our fantasy of what if we could get away with it and people would still love us?

13:13.32

Bob

We're wonderful.

13:16.62

Star

How big of a douchebag would you be?

13:17.02

Bob

Yes,

13:19.03

Claire

oh no.

13:19.52

Bob

Well, no, I kind of was, because, like, like, my Bloorbo Belmont is also douchebag territory, so I'm like, is there, like, a thing? It's like, are the biggest Bloorbo's the biggest douchebags? I don't know. Uh,

13:31.96

Star

Debateable.

13:32.92

Bob

yeah

13:34.78

Star

Debateable. I guess in my case. So it's kind of funny for me because I feel like… imagine the Blorbo's like the identifier of Blorbo is like a spotlight and I've got all my characters. They're all standing on stage at some point.

13:53.98

Star

I would say that most characters have been in that blorbo la that mental Blorbo spotlight for at least a little while. Because it definitely started with Vector. Kind of like what Clam was saying about how Cheth was kind of the character that the whole comic was made for. That's kind of the same thing with Vector. And he is my main character. It's just like, I... Love this weird little guy. I love this weird concept. He literally came to me in a dream.

14:25.02

Star

I want to rotate him. I want to figure out what his deal is. I want to build a world around him so that he can be the center of my attention and I can just look at him and be like, teehee, that's my son. um But you know, you can't really have a compelling story with just one character, usually. And so I started fleshing out the cast more and more. And as I started doing that, I just started realizing, oh, wait, you're fun too.

14:57.72

Star

And so I would say that largely my main trio, tha t's Vector, Ariana, and Frankie, have all, I would consider all three of them Blorbos. Absolutely, definitely.

15:09.40

Star

Vector is my sweet baby boy. Frankie is just like, what if a golden retriever was human shaped? And Ariana is what if you could be an asshole and people would still like you?

15:22.78

Star

And, I mean, that's kind of continued through my other stories as well. Like, the novel that I'm working on right now spawned from, oh well, I have this Blorbo. I want to tell their story. going to build up a whole stage for them to tell that story on, and then we're just going to go from there.

15:44.44

Star

Pretty much every single one of my stories has centered around some sort of, I find this character trait fascinating and I wish to play with it. I'm going to now construct an entire sandbox, with which I will be allowed to do so. And if I make them my main characters and I will be drawing them all the time, a ha, ha, ha, ha. ha ha. My evil plan is working.

16:08.92

Bob

I support your evil plan.

16:10.50

Star

Thank you. I love my evil plan.

16:15.13

Star

But yeah, so moving on to the second question. So we've got our Blorbos, we've got our little guys that we're obsessed with, but I would argue that there are good and bad things about having like one or two really specific characters that you really want to hone in on all the time. So in that respect, What are some of the upsides and what are some of the downsides of having that one character that you are super duper obsessed with? And again, I'm throwing the Blorbo at Bob.

16:47.67

Star

Yeet.

16:47.98

Bob

Ouch. Okay, I'm ready this time.

16:51.93

Bob

Well, no you know, I really, really, really love what you said about, kind of like the blorbo spotlight, because I think that is so true. And I'm going to start with the upsides, because in the same way that your blorbo can do no wrong, we got to look at the positive first. So like, for me, like, I've also had that same thing where like, the spotlight goes from one character to another. And you know, when it hits a character, that's their time to shine. And that's where like, you know, I, you know, going to use my boomer slang and going to strike when the iron's hot, you know, that you got to like chase that inspiration a little bit.

17:28.60

Bob

And I find it really useful when I'm kind of really hot on a particular blorbo to just flesh them out. And the thing about,

17:39.54

Bob

The thing about having a cast of characters is that what fleshes out a character is their interactions with other characters. So even when you are fixated on a Blorbo, I should say for for that side story, the literal title of the story, the working title of that story was Merritt's story. It was not Belmont's story, it was Merritt's story. It was about Merritt because Merritt was the Blorbo. And so in writing Merritt, then I got to write his interactions with Belmont, who was also not supposed to be a major character in Merritt's story.

18:14.71

Bob

And then as I was writing, then Belmont got more fleshed out. And then it's like a domino effect. Every character who interacts with your Blorbo gets fleshed out. And then there's a chance that the spotlight will turn to them. It's like the rabies. The spotlight is also contagious. It can spread from one Blorbo to the next. So I find that really useful just not to fight against inspiration. If you're inspired by something and you have the room and your schedule and and the flexibility to run with it, even if it is just those that like dabbling at night as you're falling asleep or you know when you're stuck in traffic or when you're in the shower, just you know if you have the space to chase the inspiration, I think a lot of things...

19:03.00

Bob

beautiful things happen when your mind is primed and open to that level of development. The other thing is that even if it's not stuff that you can actually use in the comic, you get all this extra fun stuff that you just have and then maybe you can do other things with it. Maybe you can use it for bonus content. Maybe it's just something that informed you about the characters and nnow you just have that extra information. So it's making all of your other characters more real. And I think there's a little bit of benefit to that. um As for the downsides,

20:23.26

Bob

I can't say there are no downsides to having a blorbo fixation. The most notable being that if you allow the blorbo fixation to permeate your story, you can end up getting off the rails and having distraction and your formerly tight little beautiful plot is now

20:54.68

Bob

just like an abandoned railway where like all the trains are running in like all the different directions and everything's in disrepair. And, you know, you just let it go. And, you know, your story's just going in all different directions because you had to chase the Blorbo and the Blorbo wasn't really important to the plot. And now you're just out there and it's been seven months, eight months and you've written 12 pages. so you know, the thing about getting off track in webcomic world is that, you know, the the time, the translation of ah getting a little off track to how much time has this cost me

21:36.57

Bob

It can be very, very severe. That's just something to be aware of. Yeah, be careful because the blorbo, it's it's like they lead you into the labyrinth, you're following your blorbo, and then all of a sudden, you're lost, and there's a minotaur, and you don't know what to do.

21:58.20

Star

See, the trick is that then you have to make the Minotaur your Blorbo.

22:01.69

Bob

Oh, oh, you have a fix for everything. Wow, amazing.

22:04.65

Star

I do- I- I'm Blorbo- am an expert Blorbologist.

22:06.20

Bob

you Yes.

22:08.70

Star

Ask me anything about Blorbos.

22:11.15

Bob

Put the spotlight on the Minotaur.

22:13.21

Star

Yes, I mean, I do, you know, feel like that is kind of a thing, though. It's like, if you want to stay consistently motivated in your comic endeavors, or just story crafting endeavors in general, I feel like there is value in figuring out how to blorboize, like, all of your characters.

22:33.43

Star

That's what keeps you going like crazy because then it's just, oh, well, I really, really like this character. Oh, but I also really, really like this character. And if you find that there are characters of yours that you focus on less, maybe try and figure out what you could do to change them and make them make your brain go brrrr, I guess, because it's just like maybe.

22:54.46

Star

You have your normal-ass character, but maybe you give them a little bit of sad in the backstory, and then it just makes you go a little bit feral. And then you're like, oh, well, now I'm really excited to draw this one scene with them. And I just I think there is value in self-indulgence and letting yourself play in your own sandbox.

23:14.39

Bob

Oh, definitely. Yeah.

23:16.47

Star

Yes, yes, yes. But now I have the whiffle ball that is covered in rabies. I call it the Blorbo ball. I'm throwing it at clam. Yeet.

23:25.05

Claire

That is quite an image.

23:27.70

Star

And then you're holding it now.

23:27.99

Claire

Oh my god.

23:29.06

Star

You're welcome.

23:30.90

Claire

I don't know what to say. It looks wonderful. Thank you for this gift. oh

23:38.84

Star

This is an audio medium.

23:38.81

Claire

I have the rabies now.

23:40.48

Star

You have the rabies. Explain the good the positives and the negatives about the rabies now, please.

23:46.14

Claire

Oh, there are positives? No, I know.

23:49.62

Star

Oh, What have we done?

23:53.37

Claire

In this case, I, gosh, I, it's been a really interesting kind of seeing how other people deal with the blorbitis and like Bob was saying, like chasing, chasing those blorbitis. kind of plot bunnies that you have in your head of like, oh, I actually really like this character. I want to work on this instead. But then like everything else is abandoned. I'm the opposite. The image from my comic is very, very much like set in my head. I feel like I'm just printing it very slowly. So I'm the kind of person to be like, okay, there is no chapter here with Cheth in it.

24:37.24

Claire

Deal with it. like You have to go through and show another aspect of the world, deal with another character. You have to do it. It's not going to be as fun, but you have to do it.

24:49.24

Claire

And it's important. And when you actually look at the full structure of the comic, all of those departures from Blorbos make sense. And I think it's been very hard for me because I draw so slowly. But basically, like, the first chapter is all Cheth. It was fun to do, but it took three years to draw because Cheth is a crowd. Cheth is a crowd scene times however many panels there were in the chapter. So I got to spend three years drawing this character over and over again. And it was very fun. But by the end, I was kind of like...

25:26.23

Claire

oh, oh boy, that's t hat's a marathon. Okay, let's move on to something else. And I had to go and do a chapter where it's like, okay, here's the conflict, but what about the world that the conflict takes place in? And i I shifted perspective over to Pavel and his mom.

25:46.62

Claire

And I love Pavel. Pavel, I don't rotate as a blorbo so much as I just, Pavel is like... a literal light bulb in the story no pun intended because he has a little lantern that glows but like he's he's just the guiding light of this is this is the child that will fix a lot of problems between these characters that are fighting and yeah i was forced to actually really delve into him and his story and the world that he lives in

26:17.94

Claire

And a lot of people actually really like that chapter. And I was totally expecting people to be like, where's the Blorbos? Go back to them. But again, I like the fact that I'm writing for a lot of different sorts of readers.

26:34.07

Claire

I think everybody will get into the comic for the same sorts of things, but then they'll have different favorites in terms of who they like to follow. And again, like I spent three years drawing a Cheth chapter and I spent three years not drawing any Cheth in the comic. And that was hard. It's hard in a different way.

26:55.03

Claire

but I remember yeah talking about this. I have threads with friends that also make web comics. And I remember Delfina, who's another member of this podcast, she made a really good point about, I think I was asking like, what, you know what do you all want to see from this comic going forward? It was something I asked maybe three or four years ago, just to ask a random question. Cause I was like, what are you all excited for? What are you not excited for? I'm just curious. And Delphie was like, I actually really want you to delve into your side characters. Cause the main character, Phaedra, who I can't call her a blorbo. Cause I feel like she's just me. She's just, she's just me. I just put her in the comic and it's like, here, deal with it. This is, this is you in this world dealing with all these problems, have fun. And like,

27:47.10

Claire

It's really about the things that happen to her. And in this case, like she's surrounded by a crew of other like ghostly friends. And I was kind of initially kicking myself being like, oh, gosh, I gave her so many other friends. What do I do with them? But Delphie being interested in them made me be like, okay, how can I actually delve into who they are? Because I know who they are.

28:12.84

Claire

They're not blorbos in the same way that like i don't i don't rotate them as strongly in my head but all of them i found that the way to make them all more interesting to me to write about was to tie them to either Cheth or Chelene in terms of how they interact with people how they see the world in some cases…Not not familiar familial relations, but like spoiler alert for whoever doesn't read. Chelene is currently inhabiting the body of Lani’s mother, which is a problem that will be a big problem later on.

28:52.09

Claire

And I'm basically like, I'm setting up a lot of these little threads where characters that I'm less excited about are related to characters that I'm more excited about in ways that will make them more interesting to me to write about. But anybody who...

29:08.66

Claire

actually really, really likes them just as characters will still be excited. Cause I'm not going to glom onto the same kinds of characters that Bob would or star would like, we're all different people. We all have different likes and dislikes for things that get us to really love the character.

29:26.97

Claire

And I can't make a story that's just 20 Cheths, except I kind of have in some ways sometimes.

29:34.33

Star

I mean, why can't you?

29:36.44

Claire

Well,

29:36.66

Star

Why can't you do that? It sounds like coward talk to me.

29:42.10

Claire

I just, I want, that's part of the problem though, isn't it?

29:45.78

Claire

Because like you have the Blorbo rabies, but you're also like, what makes Blorbo rabies? And it's not just the Blorbo

29:51.96

Star

Blabies.

Claire

Blabies

29:53.85

Claire

It's not about, it's not about having the character just in a vacuum. You want them to bounce off of other characters. You want them to exist in this world and like put them in situations, but situations don't exist unless you have other non-Blorbo characters.

30:11.00

Claire

So, yeah, i think I think for me it's kind of... yeah The upsides are it forces you to become more creative by default because you do have to make a playground for the Blorbo to exist in. But the downside, at least for me, is any time spent setting up that world and those other characters is time not spent with the Borbo. And you're just like that constant push and pull of I'm not drawing you, but I'll get there. And it'll be even better when I draw you again, because I put in this work into your playground, I guess.

30:50.72

Star

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I do think it's interesting how many different ways people have kind of come up with to offset the blobology. Because, I mean, kind of like I said, I guess I am curious. I'm going off script here. This is not on my document. Just kind of as a follow-up question to that, I feel like I kind of know the answer to this somewhat, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

31:16.41

Star

When designing a world for your characters, if they're not the main character, why isn't that the route you went down?

31:27.41

Star

I'm kind of curious, because like I said, my Blorbos ended up becoming my main characters. So this isn't really a problem that I struggle with so much because I'm drawing them.

31:36.11

Star

95% of my pages have at least one of the three on there. And so I'm just kind of curious.

31:40.93

Claire

Mm-hmm.

31:42.17

Star

It's like, if you love these characters so much, I'm kind of curious why they didn't end up being your main characters.

31:47.86

Claire

In a way, it's weird because I say Phaedra's the main character and she is POV character. At least she was. It's starting to branch out a little bit because like the whole point of Phantom arine is you have a limited viewpoint that then opens up with more characters that come into the story and you see their viewpoints. So I think...

32:14.01

Claire

It's a little bit of a deception to say that Phaedra is my main character. I always built it around the triangle of Phaedra, Pavel and Cheth, primary colors, three very different kinds of people.

32:29.53

Claire

Phaedra is the one that is kind of the most accessible route in where she's a ghost pirate princess. Like that's very easy to understand.

32:41.21

Claire

But then I think you start realizing the world is not as simple as the way that she sees it. And ultimately, like I've added, I guess, a fourth main character onto it with Chelene. She is an antagonist, and Cheth is an antagonist too.

32:58.49

Claire

But it is interesting how it's kind of become... Less about who is the main character and more like we have a mystery to unravel. There are people that are not telling the full story here.

33:14.84

Claire

And I think it is interesting seeing stories where it's really all about the point of view of a main character or the experience of that main character going through the world and they're in every chapter and they're in every scene. And I found that so interesting because for me, it's more, it's more about like, yeah, you're, you're constructing, you're constructing a viewpoint of the world that is the truth and the truth will come through the viewpoints of multiple different characters.

33:47.06

Claire

I guess it's just a different way of kind of constructing a world. Cause in my mind.. Yeah, it is interesting. I have had people wonder, like, why did you jump away from Phaedra so quickly? And I’m like, because it's not necessarily about her entirely. It's about her growing and changing. And she will not do that unless she is put into situations and...

34:13.53

Claire

I guess, interacting with different people. And we have to see their viewpoints too. So maybe it's kind of a Game of Thrones way of looking at it, which can get complicated, but I like seeing the full picture. I think that's what I like focusing on.

34:29.59

Star

Game of bones.

34:32.35

Claire

Game of Bones!

34:33.83

Star

I'm trying to come up with some kind of pun.

34:35.70

Star

It's fish bones. I don't, I don't know. I'm dead. Bob. What's up?

34:40.28

Bob

yeah know i love but I have not actually seen Game of Thrones, but what I was thinking when you described that was kind of like the Alice in Wonderland type of story where it's like you have this kind of character who's going down and it's, you you know people care you know, people are talking about the Mad Hatter and they're talking about the the the Queen and this and that.

34:48.76

Claire

Yeah.

34:57.55

Bob

And those are kind of like the Blorbos. And it's about Alice experiencing these crazy Blorbos.

35:04.82

Claire

Exactly.

35:05.06

Bob

Yeah.

35:05.42

Claire

There you go. That's it.

35:08.09

Bob

Yeah.

35:08.44

Star

I demand art of Cheth as the Cheshire Cat now.

35:12.66

Claire

Oh, I've kind of drawn that. I should... if

35:18.42

Star

I wish to see this. But yeah, I guess, Bob, same question to you. We're going so off script here. This is my first time hosting an episode, and I'm just like, screw the script.

35:28.18

Star

This is a more interesting topic of conversation.

35:33.66

Star

Yeet that Google Doc. Anyway, I am curious because you've said you've got these Blorbos, but they're such minor side characters. And like even in the Patreon like the novels that you're writing, they're not even the main character in that.

Star

kind of curious what your story is. It's like, okay, clearly you've got this one little Blorbo that you love rotating. Why don't you show them more often? Like what's the deal there? What's the vibe? Talk about it.

36:03.34

Bob

Oh, okay. Well, I will say that... So Belmont was supposed to be a fairly significant character in the side story, Merit's story. It's just... The thing is that I conceived of Demon of the Underground in...

36:22.54

Bob

Oh, my God. It was in the year 2007 or something. Okay, so it was like a really long time ago.

36:28.57

Star

Old Blorbo.

36:29.49

Bob

So, yes. Yes. So... um it At that time, my idea of the story was, is basically, well, Pogo is very much an Alice in Wonderland type of story. He falls into the underground and and is, in you know, becomes part of this world where there are these, like, different warring spheres that all kind of, like, want him or want to kill him for, like, different reasons. And he is...

37:00.50

Bob

a half demon with telekinetic powers. And, you know, he looks very weak and unassuming and is just ... also very annoying to everyone and just horny all the time. But, no one suspects because he's this scrawny little dude, no one suspects that he has any sort of power in this underground world full of these very mean and scary people. And so Belmont was just supposed to be another mean and scary person. The only thing is that he was mean and scary in such an interesting way that I ended up having to write more of it. And then

37:38.07

Bob

He is this kind of character where you have to chip away at like 18 levels of veneer before you get to the core of who he is. And that's not something that I could even do in Pogo's story because the relationship between Pogo and Belmont is very surface level. It's the relationship between Belmont and Merritt that goes deep. And that's something that I didn't really discover until I started dabbling at these side stories. So that is just that story was never really supposed to be part of canon Demon of the Underground. It's just that I, you know, I guess I just write a lot of different stories at one time. And when I write a story, it's like, well, I want to understand every element of this story. What happened in this story five years before it started?

38:22.23

Bob

Well, what happened five years before that story? And what happened five years before that story? Then I get stuck in this loop where I'm just going deeper and deeper. And there's only so much that I can actually include in the canon story. So all of these other sides, I think I just kind of have to explore them through other avenues. So it's like,

38:42.55

Bob

It's just, a yeah, you get lost in the maze. And yeah, Belmont's time to shine just isn't in Demon of the Underground. It's in Merritt's story, unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know.

38:54.90

Claire

Do you think there's also an aspect of prose versus comics that you run into where like, I know I, I started in prose and then I moved over to comics and, there are things that are so much easier to do in prose, like discovery writing, discovery drawing is a thing too, where you're just doodling and you're like, that looks like a fun panel.

39:08.28

Bob

Oh, yeah.

39:15.18

Claire

Let's write a scene around that. But like prose, yeah. Things just come out in prose sometimes. We were like, I did not expect that. And that just came out of me. So yeah, I'm curious, do you find that there's a difference that kind of makes you want to keep prose and comics separate?

39:33.34

Bob

For me, I grew up writing prose. I mean, like I grew up seriously writing prose, like at a much younger age than I started seriously drawing. And so I think my brain is just more primed to explore in prose. And to me, it feels like a very low cost way of exploring because it's so fast. Like I type like 127 words per minute or something like that. I draw very slowly and it's just like,

40:01.30

Bob

For me… and also drawing feels a lot more labor intensive to me. It tires me out. I get fatigued faster drawing. And writing is just something that feels very quick and easy and it's a way to explore and you can just try different things. And I feel so comfortable throwing stuff away in prose in a way that for me, because drawing is more difficult for me it feels like more of a cost. And I know a lot of artists who feel exactly the opposite, who feel a lot more free to explore in imagery. And I envy those people so much because, I mean, for me, I think a lot of the reason why I write prose is because this is literally just the stuff that I couldn't fit into my comic.

40:52.59

Star

Ain't that just a heckin' mood.

40:55.80

Bob

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

40:56.79

Star

As someone who, like, I've spent most of my life doing comics, but I've started dipping my toes into prose, and I'm just like, my God, this is so much faster.

41:04.12

Bob

It really is.

41:07.35

Star

Oh my God. I've been working on just this novel that I'm poking at.

41:13.05

Star

It's completely unrelated to Cast Off, but I'm like, I just whipped out four chapters in a couple weeks. What the hell? That would take two years of comic time.

41:19.86

Bob

Yeah, you...

41:22.46

Bob

Yeah, it's like you're working on an entirely different timescale when doing comics versus prose. And it's like, they're yeah, because if, yeah, if you get off on a little tangent in comics, it's like, well, there goes a year.

41:36.98

Star

ah got you yup it's like you I feel like you really have to reign it in in comics meanwhile in prose I'm just like what's over here

41:44.44

Claire

I also like, I know that you can go back and you can redraw comic stuff, especially in web comics. There are no rules. You can just add a prologue. You can change whatever you want, who cares?

41:56.25

Claire

But there is kind of this sense of like the modularity of prose, the idea that you can just write a chapter and then like decide two weeks later like actually i don't need that or actually i can just blend that into something else and i'm just kind of like what you could do that when like the concept of like most of my chapters take one and a half to two years to draw because i'm stupid and like it basically it's just the idea of I have to make that commitment and see it through and like whatever comes out the other side comes out the other side. But to go into prose, Phantomarine would be a very different story if I had that freedom. It would be so interesting. It would also be longer and more detailed and I would not cut anything, which I have to do to stay sane.

42:47.83

Star

How much more Cheth would there be?

42:50.62

Claire

sooo…well, listen...

42:54.09

Star

I'm listening.

42:55.00

Claire

I have a flashback chapter. I have two flashback chapters that are coming up that are like my golden light that I'm like running to slowly and it never gets closer.

42:58.59

Star

Yes!

43:06.69

Claire

ah But it is getting closer. But like that would be its own book.

43:13.43

Claire

Which is not smart, but like I am fully expecting people to be like, hey, Claire, so if you ever wanted to do something after Phantomarine, can you write the book of everything that happened in that flashback chapter? And I do imagine myself being like, mmm, and then like actually absolutely doing it, yes.

43:31.50

Star

And just sliding like 100,000 words across the page. It's like, well, funny you asked.

43:34.39

Claire

It's there are five books, actually, go for it.

43:35.00

Star

already wrote it.

43:41.02

Bob

Well, the funny thing about that is that you would think that since prose is so easy to kind of modulate that way, that a comic script should be just as modular. And for some reason, I don't personally feel it.

43:51.48

Claire

no!

43:52.82

Bob

Yeah, I was going to ask, is that something that you experience or feel you have that flexibility when writing a script?

44:00.25

Claire

S tar you take that one i i just talked a bunch

44:01.97

Star

Oh, okay. I've been hit with the whiffle ball of rabies now, I guess.

44:06.66

Bob

Yep.

44:07.25

Claire

pow

44:09.72

Star

I mean, God, that really is the question, isn't it? Because, like, on the one hand, you know, I'm not as used to prose. And so sometimes I can get real tripped up when I'm just, like, sitting here writing a seed and I'm just like, what's the cimmonym for smiled?

44:28.82

Star

And so I can't...

44:29.11

Bob

yeah

44:30.84

Star

I also did just say cimmonym instead of synonym.

44:34.53

Claire

Cinnamon! Cinnamon sugar!

44:40.22

Star

I'm a professional English speaker. Anyway.

44:45.55

Star

Sprinkle some simonium on my toast. But anyway, and it's, you know, versus comic scripts where i have trimmed down my writing for comic scripts to a DOLPHIN science. It is slimmed down to just the bare essentials.

45:10.87

Star

I don't know what y'all scripts look like, but my scripts are like characters first initial colon, all of their dialogue, new line every time someone talks. And then I just intersperse it with stage directions.

45:24.11

Bob

Exactly how I do mine.

45:25.66

Star

yeah Let's go.

45:25.81

Bob

yes Exactly.

45:25.78

Claire

Same, same.

45:27.57

Bob

yeah Down to the initial. yeah

45:29.66

Star

Yes. And that's why all my characters' names start with different first letters so that I don't get confused.

45:37.27

Star

But yeah, I mean, something about it. I just,

45:43.06

Star

I don't know. I was unprepared for this question because like something about it. It's just I find it a little bit easier to screw around with prose because there is a bit more floof in there to play with.

45:58.14

Star

It's like the wire mother versus the cloth mother. It's like, yeah, yeah I've got all this fluff, but do I need this fluff to survive? Hmm.

46:11.99

Star

That's a bad comparison ignore me.

46:14.51

Star

What were you going to say?

46:15.54

Bob

Well, no, I was just thinking, like, just kind of asking myself that question, even like, why is it so much harder in script? And I think it's because script is not fully fleshed script is prototype or it's even before the prototype.

46:30.89

Bob

It's like for me, thumbnails are more prototype, but script is even just kind of the idea of a prototype.

46:33.01

Claire

Mm-hmm.

46:35.85

Bob

So when I write a script, I'm not seeing it happen. I don't see it happen until I thumbnail it. Whereas with prose, as I'm writing it, I'm seeing it happen because everything is described more, more fluidly.

46:47.57

Bob

So I don't know, for me, maybe that's why script doesn't feel as as fluid and as workable, because like, it's it's like script is just, well, maybe this is theoretically what could happen, but I don't know if it could happen until I draw it in thumbnails. So I don't know.

47:03.58

Star

That makes sense. Yeah. I like that answer. We have gotten a little bit off topic, though. We've been here for a while.

47:08.22

Bob

I was about to say, yeah.

47:09.36

Star

So I'm going to go ahead and ask the last question and then maybe we can ramble about this in another episode.

47:17.31

Star

So what is your advice to someone who maybe wants to make a balanced comic, but they all have that one character who just won't stop tap dancing through their brains trying to make it all about them. So how we kind of talked about like, you know, balancing the perspectives, but what's your advice on how to do that? Bob Yeet.

47:38.84

Bob

okay So I'm going to say two entirely contradictory things. The first thing I'm going to say is, well, maybe, maybe you can give your blorbo more screen time. Maybe you can give them more time on the page. And then the other thing I'm going to say is like, maybe you can't give your blorbo any more time than what they have allotted in the script. It entirely depends on what the script is and what the story is. is So, ah you know, in the first scenario,

48:05.11

Bob

Maybe you can give your blorbo a little bit more. As an example, I will say I have a tendency when I script things and when I kind of concept things is that a lot of times I'll write like a one person scene or a two person scene that might've been more interesting if it was a three person scene.

48:25.27

Bob

And sometimes those scenes can be reworked to have more characters interacting in them. And is that an opportunity for your blorbo to step in, depending on whether it's appropriate to the plot?

48:36.82

Bob

Is that a space where they can step in and have a little bit more time and you can have a little bit more fun interaction that develops all the characters and goes deeper into the plot and is more fulfilling for the reader? Because I do think that at its core,

48:50.01

Bob

If a blorbo is fascinating to you, it's because there's something about the blorbo that's special and it would be a shame if no one ever got to see that. So is it possible to include more of them in the story? And if if not,

49:04.86

Bob

Sometimes, you know, like in the case with my beloved Belmont, I mean, I gave him a little more. I will say I gave him a little bit more, but there's only so much more that he can really have, no matter how much he claims he can have more. And in that case, it is, well, what else can you do with that character just to get the energy out? Is it writing little scenes just for yourself? Is it writing mini comics? Is it just doing illustrations? Is it like, is there another story that you can write after you're done with this one? Is there a second comic in your schedule for, you know, if you're writing a shorter comic that isn't going to take you your entire lifespan, maybe you can do a second comic. So yeah, I think that a lot is in looking at what, like, what is the core of your story? What is it really about? And is there space for more Blorbo tap dancing? And, you know, take an objective look and and maybe the answer is yes, maybe no, but you could approach it different ways, depending on what the answer is.

50:10.42

Star

Like that. Love it. Whiffle ball to Clam. Bam.

50:14.84

Claire

Kapow! I got it again. Hopefully it's less rabies riddled now, but... No! No!

Star

You got it again it's more rabies riddled now added more of my blorbos into it

50:26.92

Claire

Oh no! I shake them.

50:27.58

Star

yeah

50:28.51

Claire

I shake them in the ball.

50:30.39

Star

but they make a jingle noise

50:35.42

Claire

I think for me, I like going back to the idea of, you might not have every character be your Blorbo, but every character is a potential Blorbo to someone or even to you in like a lesser degree. I don't think that you necessarily need that. I think if your main character is your Blorbo and you can fit them into every scene and you want to go wild, like That's kind of the norm. That's totally fine. I think if you realize that your story needs to be in service of more than one viewpoint, I think that, I like the idea of like, you start a chapter and you're like, all right, this is going to be a chapter that's another character.

51:24.99

Claire

it feels daunting but like you will find some element of them more interesting as you go along even just as you draw like they'll there might be some interesting expression or pose or tick that you see them kind of want to do as a character that you're you kind of are like huh like you're not Blorbo Prime in my heart, but like, I can rotate you.

51:52.58

Claire

yeah You're rotatable. You've become more three-dimensional.

51:56.70

Star

You could get rotated.

52:00.97

Claire

You have rotation potential, yes. You are no longer flat. You are no longer 2D. You are no longer, like a line on a page that's like, this is a character that only exists because I need this character as a functional element of the story. Like that was Pavel initially. Like I needed a character that would serve a purpose. And I was like, that's you. But Pavel has become his own character as the story has gone on. And like, it only took a few pages of me drawing him to be like, Okay, yeah, you're not just you're not just a tool. you're You're a character. I love you. you're you're not like

52:39.62

Claire

You're not like my Borbo Prime, but I love you. You are a good character, and I really am glad that you're here. And that's happened with a lot of other characters, too, and it's going to happen more once I have more points of view in a couple chapters. But like I have… Delphie convinced me to have like a traveling chapter where we have little mini adventures, Tales of Ba Sing Se style with all the crew members of Phaedra's little boat crew so I'm excited for that. Because I don't know them as well as the other characters and I'm excited to learn about them that's the kind of thing that I want to impart.

53:17.46

Claire

And even the the chapter where I revealed that Helea is Chelene, I remember it was originally a lot shorter, but then there was some there were some things that I drew where like there's one of my author's comments where I'm like I'm telling people, like this chapter used to be a lot shorter, and then Chelene did this.

53:37.18

Claire

She took on her own agency. She became her own character by me drawing her. So I think maybe yeah my advice is like, yes, you can chase your Blorbo, but recognize that you in your power of creating a Blorbo in the first place, you have the ability to make others. And I think you have unique viewpoints.

54:00.31

Claire

of what you like, what you know your readers like, what you would want to see in this character and I would say trust yourself. You've always got the blorbo to fall back on but like see see what else you can do you might really surprise yourself just by kind of turning your gaze away from whoever you love most and being like okay but what about you? What is special about you? And like I don't know think about people that you've met in real life where like you don't know much about them initially but then like they say that one thing where you're like oh you are fascinating. I need to know more about you. It doesn't take a lot sometimes. Same with characters like you can find you can find the blorbo in everyone i think

54:49.75

Star

What I'm hearing is, open your heart to the Blorbos.

54:53.14

Claire

Yes.

54:54.04

Star

Let more of a Blorbo into your heart.

54:58.40

Star

Webcomic mouth perfect place for put Blorbo.

55:01.65

Claire

a...

55:01.90

Bob

Yes.

55:04.39

Claire

Insert rabies into pelican mouth.

55:09.30

Star

Webcomic perfect place for put Blorbo. Open heart, allow more Blorbo rabies into... I'm losing this metaphor, but I...

55:17.50

Claire

no you have found it.

55:19.29

Star

ah

55:19.70

Bob

yes

55:20.15

Star

And it's in the Pelican mouth. The Pelican is my Blorbo. Surprise! But yeah, I think that is a lot of very good advice. I would go off on my own tangent, but honestly, I don't really have much else to say that wasn't already covered here.

55:38.68

Star

So was there any final notes from anybody or can I wrap it up?

55:49.20

Bob

think we've all just got rabies and not much else.

55:52.15

Star

Let's

55:52.22

Claire

I think we we have shared our rabies stories and we have increased the rabies.

55:55.98

Star

Let's go bite people!

55:57.19

Claire

God.

55:59.70

Star

Last episode I was on, I couldn't stop talking about horses. Now I'm making two people talk about rabies. Can't wait for the rabies count on this video. Anyway I think that that is a chicken Caesar salad rabies wrap. Thank you.

56:15.89

Bob

my god!

56:17.56

Claire

Delicious.

56:18.97

Star

So thank you so much for listening. I have been your host, Star, and you can check out my work at castoff-comic.com.

56:27.58

Bob

And I've been Bob, and you can find my webcomics at intothesmokecomic.com and demonoftheunderground.com.

56:35.16

Claire

And I've been Claire Clam. You can find my comic at phantomarine.com.

56:40.15

Star

All right, and we will see you guys later. We

56:44.73

Claire

More rabies next time! Woohoo!

56:51.61

Claire

Incredible.

56:53.98

Star

we did it we did a normal episode

56:54.97

Bob

Yeah, we survived.