Joining us today is Special Guest Bob, the creator of Into the Smoke! Join us as we talk all about Patreon!

Patreon is a site where you can get your readers to financially support you on a subscription model. You make an account on patreon.com, send your readers over to give you any amount per month they want, and you can post bonus content for your readers that’s either free to access OR behind a paid tier. It can be a really nice way to put a little money in your pocket, but it’s also really easy to overwhelm yourself, too, so we’re going to talk about what we’ve learned about navigating it!

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Episode Release Date: September 4, 2024

Episode Credits:

Bob (@bob-artist) - any, intothesmokecomic.com Bluesky Tumblr Instagram

Kristen Lee (@feathernotes) - she/they, ghostjunksickness.com lunarblight.com

Christina Major (@delphina2k) - she/her, sombulus.com

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The Intro "DO IT (feat. Shia LaBeouf)", and the Outro "It's Good To See You Again!!", both by Adrianwave, have been used and modified in good faith under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Licensed. Edits include: Fade IN/OUT, and a repeat added to the beginning of "It's Good To See You Again!!". For more information on this creative commons use, please reference https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.

Transcription

This transcript is auto generated by our recording software.

Transcript:

00:02.48

Krispy

Anyway, hello and welcome to ScreenTones where we talk anything and everything webcomics. Today we're going to be talking about Patreon, what it is, how it works for webcomics, and all of our experiences with it. I'm Crispy, I use she-dade pronouns, and I make the comics Ghost Young Sickness and Lunar Blight.

00:20.76

Delphina

And I'm Delphina, I use she-her pronouns and I make the webcomic Sombulus.

00:27.06

Bob

And I am Bob. I use any pronouns and I make the webcomic into the smoke and also demon of the underground.

00:37.45

Delphina

so Well, thank you for joining us, Bob. um So yeah, we're talking about Patreon, um which is a site where you can get your readers to financially support you on a subscription model. um You can make an account on patreon dot.com, send your readers over to give you any amount of money per month that they want. And you can also post bonus content for your readers that's either free to access or behind a paid tier. And this can be a really nice way to put a little money in your pocket, but it's also really easy you to overwhelm yourself too. So we're going to talk about what we've learned about navigating it.

01:16.05

Krispy

heck yes, overwhelms. That's me. Um, so I'm gonna be asking you two some questions because I'm overwhelmed, and I'm still trying to figure it out on my end. I'm still pretty new to it. um So let's begin. um Asking you, Delphi, let's start with you. um How have you used Patreon for your webcomics? Like, tell us, tell us the story, the beginnings.

01:42.37

Delphina

Okay. Well, I'm not an early adopter of anything, but I i feel like I've been on Patreon for for several years now. um it It was kind of getting into this um ah getting into the public eye as as like, oh, hey, webcomics are doing this. You can like go ahead and and put your your stuff on Patreon and and people you know, your readers will give you money. What? um And this was very appealing in the age of like, Oh, banner ads are dying.

02:14.01

Delphina

Everybody's using ad blockers.

02:14.14

Krispy

Mm hmm.

02:15.65

Delphina

And, ah you know, just having that nice recurring subscriptions added like a good deal to me um so i i signed up and made a little account i made a couple of tears um i feel like i started off with the early access for you know i'm i'm making the web comic i'm making pages And if you pay me five dollars a month, then you can see the pages before anybody else. You can see an update early. So I've i've done that. I've tried a few other things. um I've tried um

02:56.03

Delphina

just that giveaways for stickers and things. I have also done special behind the scenes things when I've been preparing for print. So there's a lot of editing that I do. Sometimes I switch up scenes and stuff like that. And so Patreon lets me show my supporters some some early like looks at some of the edits that I'm making and I kind of go into the reasoning behind why I'm making the tweaks I'm making. So it's kind of pulling back the curtain a little bit.

03:29.17

Krispy

Mm hmm.

03:30.21

Delphina

And then also I just do just little fun things, um whatever is kind of striking my fancy. So I've done um wallpapers of the characters from my comics and I did, I did some other things ah that were kind of audio play things that I didn't do that for very long, though, because it it felt weird. And I'm not sure that anybody was listening to them. um Or I've also done um the time lapse feature, I'll take a time lapse with clip studios features and show myself doing an illustration and then put a little music behind it, put a put a video up for

04:12.72

Delphina

for my readers to check out and yeah, that's been a ah pretty fun experience.

04:18.95

Krispy

I really like the idea for Patreon to like allow a lot of the behind the scenes. And it's kind of like an all in one place to have a paywall so that you can actually support the artists, especially in this time, to kind of see and have access to it. So that's been really, really refreshing to see. um So Bob, as our, you know, beautiful guest for this episode, I'm gonna ask you the same question. Like, how have you used Patreon for your web comics and tell us all about it?

04:50.02

Bob

So I feel like Delphi might um relate to this a little bit because I launched my first webcomic in 2011 and I know she was around back then and yeah.

05:02.64

Delphina

Yep, I was just a year behind in 2010, so.

05:07.00

Bob

Yeah, so I think, you you know, one thing that I can say fairly confidently about 2011 is that no one really went into web comics at that time with the expectation that they were going to make a living from it.

05:19.43

Krispy

Mmhmm.

05:19.77

Bob

And so, you know, I, you know, I just, you know, was making this comic for fun. And I also was a new freelancer. um And I was, you know, as a new freelancer was taking all sorts of, you know, clients that, you know, just low paying long hours. And, ah you know, after a few years yeah I was recovering from a long illness and I had been working on this comic And I was like, well, if only I could just like make a little bit of money from it, then maybe I could you know get rid of you you know some of those clients that I felt were really weighing me down and eating into my schedule and you know could make make money from my project.

05:53.11

Krispy

Mm hmm.

05:58.41

Bob

And this was 2014. Patreon was brand new. One of my readers was actually like, hey, why don't you try this? And I'm like, I don't even know what that is. But, but, you know, i I tried, I launched toward the end of 2014. And, you know, because I had been working on the comic for several years, you know, I got a lot of immediate support. And I was like really shocked by this because, you know, nothing I had put online had ever gotten traction before this comic. So um I was doing a lot of you know, pretty labor intensive extras, but things that I was really excited about, um particularly extras where I was able to tell more of the story than I could tell in the canon comic.

06:33.64

Krispy

Mm hmm.

06:41.63

Bob

So I was doing like, you know, letters from the characters, I was doing extra sketches. After several years, I launched a, you know, epic length novel series because my background is in prose um of you know one of the the comic side characters and you know after a few years. um Suddenly, I was actually you know making enough from my Patreon that I was actually able to sustain. you know the amount of work I was putting in. I was able to get rid of those clients that I didn't want anymore. and um you know It was ah pretty awesome. and i I look back at um what I was putting out during those early years and I have no idea how I was able to do that other than you know

07:28.99

Bob

I learned later on the the meaning of work-life balance and burnout, but we can get to that at another time. But that's basically what my journey has has been like. Other than most recently, I did kind of dial back and then you know in order to ah launch a new project, which I just launched last month.

07:41.92

Krispy

Mmhmm.

07:47.57

Bob

So so that's basically how I've been using Patreon.

07:52.23

Krispy

I really enjoy that. And you know, you mentioned like having that passion kind of helped drive it when you're like, okay, I'm reflecting on how much work I put into this and it makes sense for the time because I was really into this. And I think that's definitely important to kind of ride those waves. And you know, it's really cool actually to hear both Belfi and Bob, you two have been in Patreon when it was like kind of first around and more new and I remember like having some conversations about like people being pretty skeptical about it um as well but like this definitely warms my heart to hear that like it was something that could help fuel that like financially to be a little bit more stable and something that you're really really passionate about because I feel like that's but that's definitely a dream for a lot of people

08:42.02

Krispy

um just reflecting back on that um as far as my own experiences with patreon um i i enter all the games really really late um so i was so i was one of the people who are pretty skeptical because i'm always like I'm not gonna get anything from this because I just I don't know like i people really won't actually give me money for doing the things that I like especially with how niche they are but I feel like it it was a nice pleasant surprise I don't have like a huge patreon but you know I think that I'm also

09:18.85

Krispy

I'm excited for the fact that like a lot of it is cataloged and a lot of it makes me feel good that I can just put out like that extra content myself in a nice little space to share with people that's organized too. So that gives me some like you know some happiness there um for that. But like definitely as a tool to help you know get some financial like like ah help, um no matter how big or how small, it it actually really, really does help. And I'm totally grateful for the people who who have decided to to help us um kind of pursue web comics. Because like you mentioned, Bob, like

10:01.62

Krispy

in the earlier days of webcomics, that wasn't the expectation to kind of come in and be like, this is gonna be my living kind of thing.

10:10.04

Bob

Yeah, exactly

10:13.64

Krispy

And, you know, it's, it's the landscape that has changed in the last and five to seven years pretty dramatically. So Patreon, as a kind of a direct means to support artists is very important. Um, with that, I'm going to jump to our next question. Um, so Delphi, tell me about this. What kinds of things surprised you about Patreon experience? Like the good, the bad, the ugly. Tell me about that.

10:42.32

Delphina

Um, okay. Well, I didn't realize ah how much energy it was going to be. Like, like you come up with a bunch of tiers of rewards that sound really cool. Like, oh, I'm going to draw this person a thing every month or or or something for for this amount of money. And like, It's sustainable for a while, but after ah a period of time, it was just like so much. like I can't do a big illustration every month.

11:18.24

Delphina

I can't do the wallpapers every month.

11:18.56

Krispy

Mm hmm.

11:23.45

Delphina

At some point, you start running out of ideas. You can poll people for their they're sort of opinions or like maybe they want something or or something like that. But like I think there's a fatigue there too, even with um with the people who follow me at least where they're just like, oh, I don't know, whatever. um so I feel like I put a lot of pressure on myself initially to to do a lot of this stuff. and One of the things that surprised me was that I could actually change course pretty easily. like ah Yeah, I promised this thing, but it doesn't mean I have to do it forever and ever.

12:01.98

Delphina

um so So I kind of just made a practice of every year kind of revisiting, okay, what did I do? What did I like? What did I not like? um and And kind of tweaking things from there, what would I be excited to work on and show people? um And I think also to the amount that we worry about

12:22.64

Krispy

Mm hmm.

12:27.56

Delphina

like having very compelling Patreon tiers, very compelling rewards. A lot of people just came by because they liked what I was doing already. They just wanted to support me. um I thought it was going to be more like a store. There was going to be more churn, but a lot of people just sort of said it and forget it, I think. So they'll just kind of give you a couple bucks a month indefinitely. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Um, that free money.

12:58.66

Delphina

I mean, it's not free though. Like that's the thing though.

13:00.93

Bob

Yeah.

13:01.64

Delphina

You sort of feel like you're taking advantage of people and, and, and like, you feel a little guilty. Well, I have to give them something. This is a transaction. I have to do something, but we forget that like, Oh, wait, I am making an entire free comic for them to read.

13:18.56

Krispy

Mm-hm.

13:21.73

Delphina

Like, and I've been doing it for a decade, like, okay, they're allowed to give me a little money a month if they want to. And just, um, I feel like that's, that's important. Um, that said, I feel like there are a couple of things I wish that Patreon would, would have worked on a little better. I still don't think their search function works very well and I don't know why they haven't tried to improve it. Um, I think a lot of the clients tell that they're focused on is maybe music people or influencer people. And like, so, so a lot of their development over the years has been towards video and things that I don't really do a lot of besides, you know, the aforementioned time lapses. So, um,

14:13.77

Delphina

So, yeah, I would wouldn't say it's a bad place. I think it's um it's got the brand recognition that you want in terms of ah getting your readers to to trust, like giving this thing money because a lot of people that they're, you know, supporting or if Webcomic readers often read a lot of other people's Webcomics.

14:24.82

Krispy

Yeah.

14:36.10

Delphina

So it's a one stop shop for a lot of places. So that's kind of nice. um But Yeah, and sometimes I'm like, we could have had it all rolling in the deep. We didn't.

14:48.97

Bob

it

14:51.92

Bob

yeah I feel that.

14:55.95

Krispy

ah quick ah ah Oh my gosh. Well, Bob, how do you feel about this? What kinds of things surprised you about yeah ah your Patreon experience?

15:06.46

Bob

Well, first of all, I have to say, I mean, like, I basically agree on, like, literally every point that Delphi just made. It's just like, like, you know, take it out of my mouth, leave me with nothing to say. No, I'm just kidding. But but no, no, they' like, it's so true, though, like, like the fact that, um you know, things that you think you can sustain on a monthly basis in the beginning, you don't expect that you're going to be doing this for five years, 10 years.

15:17.61

Delphina

I'm sorry.

15:28.69

Krispy

Mmhmm.

15:32.21

Bob

and And, you know, I was doing it at the very beginning, 18 original sketches a month that I would mail out.

15:40.41

Delphina

Not so much.

15:41.87

Bob

pagerons And I cut it down to quarterly. I'm still actually doing them. But now it's quarterly. But but yeah, I was like crazy. But um, I sometimes like to think I mean, I don't think it's healthy to ever like compare yourself to a startup. But I'm going to just in this one. situation, which is that when you are doing that initial push, sometimes it's justified to put in that extra effort and you know go above and beyond your typical output.

16:02.50

Krispy

Mmhmm.

16:05.72

Bob

But then it's supposed to be temporary. You're never supposed to sustain that you know over the long term. And I think that's something that I wish I had learned a little earlier.

16:14.39

Krispy

Yeah.

16:14.64

Bob

um But also in terms of the flexibility of being able to change from month to month and say, well, you know what, this isn't working for me anymore. I'm going to switch it around. And and you know just like you said, there are so many people who they're not in it because they're just you know waiting for that next reward and they're going to cancel the moment you're late. It's like they just they want to support what you're creating.

16:34.97

Krispy

Mm hmm.

16:35.24

Bob

And um I think you know on a separate note, what I really found surprising, um and I feel like this is especially important to bring up these days, is that you don't even really need to have a huge following in order to have a meaningful amount of support on Patreon. um it's It's so much about strategy, it's so much about like what you're choosing to put out there and you know where you're choosing to you know drive your readers. um You know you have so much control over you like do you want to use it as just like a tip jar or do you want to to do all these elaborate side projects. I was just really surprised because

17:19.92

Bob

I assumed since I didn't have the biggest readership that, you know, I didn't have very high expectations, but I think even even smaller amounts of support, you know, they're really meaningful when they're steady, when they're every month, because that's what that's what Webcomics is.

17:27.12

Krispy

Mm hmm.

17:36.54

Bob

You know, it's it's that steady, sustained support, the marathon out of sprint and, you know, getting that steady amount, even if it isn't, you know, the hugest amount, it really is, you know, meaningful, I think.

17:48.52

Krispy

Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree 100%. Like, you know, the small amounts add up. And, you know, it's helped get things kind of rolling, again, financially with like, ah providing equipment that we definitely needed. And also helping ah funds like, you know, even going to conventions and stuff like this small amount of money really, really helps and, You know, I definitely want to encourage folks for, um you know, really kind of believing in that because I know that there is also like a doubt that they're like, well, you know, I really do want to support so and so but like, I can only give $2 and it doesn't feel good to only give them $2 so i I don't want to even try and it's just like, no, if you feel like you can, and if you really

18:39.31

Krispy

want to, I definitely encourage that because honestly, anything helps and it does add up. And at the end of the day, I mean, if it's a coffee, it's a coffee, it's gonna help. It's gonna lift my spirits for sure.

18:53.29

Bob

yeah and i definitely

18:56.71

Krispy

um You know, it's it's just really interesting to have you know, and talking about like the things that have surprised both of you with the Patreon um kind of aspect and and going into it, um you know, I really like that, that talk about that that the Patreon really, really building up um for the small amounts that you kind of need because, you know, as somebody who has entered the game a little, little late,

19:17.94

Bob

Yeah, definitely.

19:29.29

Krispy

I feel overwhelmed. I'm so overwhelmed because I assume I'm like, oh gosh, you look at people who are pretty established and you're like, okay, I guess I have to do everything they're doing. um I don't know if I can and I'm scared. And that was one of the things that definitely has made me take so long into starting ah Patreon is that I'm just like, can I keep up? But you know, Bob, you mentioning like, you know, creators having the power to use Patreon the way that they can as a tip jar, or you know, just places like Delphi uses to, to put on like exclusive like behind the scenes stuff like you do have control over that. And I know some creators who use

20:16.35

Krispy

um Patreon kind of a pay what you want to and you leave ah you know a lot of that in the hands of folks that are supporting you so you have like a minimum payment of like three dollars but they can up it to whatever and you know some people just really want to see their faves succeed and they will be like oh it's only a three dollars here but I'm gonna throw you like 20 bucks a month because I really want you to succeed and people like that are out there. um

20:44.83

Delphina

Yeah, I've also seen people do this cool thing where like, okay, if we can get to like blank ah dollars a month, then I'll release an extra page this month on, on my webcomic.

20:56.07

Krispy

yes

20:58.16

Delphina

And so, okay, that's, that's very exciting for people to like be able to get this extra content.

21:02.01

Krispy

Yes.

21:04.66

Delphina

But like, you know, maybe if it, if it drops under that level, because somebody cancels, then you don't get that anymore. Hmm. I don't know.

21:11.95

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

21:12.30

Delphina

So it can be fun. I think. you

21:15.94

Krispy

Yeah. Yeah, and I think like, I think The issue with a lot of this, especially in like creative fields because that's who is benefiting from it, um is that there there's always going to be a lot of self doubt kind of connected to it, um especially when it's like a financial monetary kind of like numbers thing that we talk about a lot in our podcast. um you know i am definitely not immune to that seeing other people's patreon numbers and i'm like oh god ah oh god

21:55.60

Bob

So I do have to say that I kind of have to ban myself from looking at other people's patrons and looking at their numbers, because that was that was a big cause of stress for me, particularly in the beginning. And like, I feel like I i learned eventually that like, everyone's campaign is so individual, like, like what their path is, is so separated from everyone else's, not only because of the type of project they do, but also because of, you know, whatever they might be offering, whatever their schedule is.

22:14.92

Krispy

and

22:27.28

Bob

But but yeah, like, you know, I had to set a few rules for myself, like one of them is that I don't check my own ah patron count for the first five days of the month, because that's the one a lot of declines are and, you know, like a lot of them will resolve themselves.

22:36.20

Krispy

Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

22:40.01

Bob

and And like, basically, you know, I like set like particular hours where I'm allowed to look at things like stats and numbers, because I know that like, I am the type of person who will get drawn in by that and get nervous about it.

22:54.39

Krispy

Yeah.

22:55.31

Bob

So yeah, there are ways like, you know, Like you don't want to be like the stock exchange where you're like just like only wanting the number to go up. And like, if it ever falls down, it's devastating and you punish yourself.

23:03.99

Krispy

Yeah.

23:06.45

Bob

Like, like that's like, definitely. I don't encourage that. so

23:12.58

Krispy

Yeah, and you see it a lot, like, you know, in spaces where, you know, folks are talking and it's like, people have canceled it or whatever, and it's like a spiraling thing, which I get, I mean, you know, ah especially when you start to becoming a little financially dependent on something like this, I totally get that it's, it's right up there with a lot of ah kind of creative endeavors and expectations. um But, you know, it's, it's a really good idea like you said Bob to kind of, you know, limit yourself to really ah comparing there.

23:51.59

Bob

Yeah, I think that, you know, my my mental health definitely improved a lot once I stopped a lot of that stuff.

23:57.89

Krispy

who

23:58.57

Bob

um I think that, you know, this is one of the drawbacks to just monetizing your work in general, particularly if it started out as a hobby, because generally, you know, I say that like, you don't lose anything just by opening a Patreon, But I do think that it's worth a little bit of self-reflection to like ask yourself, how does monetizing your work change your relationship to your work?

24:23.13

Krispy

Yes!

24:23.92

Bob

And yeah, like for me, like I think it was definitely a net positive. Because until I monetized my work, because I was a freelancer, I had so much trouble giving myself permission to actually spend time on a comic page. And once it was making money, I mean, this was, you know, my own mental baggage, but but still, like, you know, the the money helped me break out of it was I was like, Well, now this is my job. Now I can justify spending hours on it. And so in that regard, I think that it really helped

24:54.94

Bob

my relationship with my work because finally I was able to put enough time into it that I could actually feel proud of my output.

25:01.29

Krispy

Mm hmm.

25:01.39

Bob

And that was really, really vital for me. um On the other hand, I think there are some people for whom, you you know, monetizing their work would kind of kill the joy of it, or at least if they're monetizing it in a really you know, deliberate way or some way other than a tip jar. So I think that's just, you know, something that's worth kind of asking yourself when you're deciding how you want to manage this or if you want to open one. Like that's just something that I, you know, um generally recommend.

25:32.68

Krispy

who Yeah, I love that. That's a beautiful point because you know, it's it's definitely a source of like ah anxiety when you're kind of discussing this stuff in in circles and people are always like when you start mentioning ah Patreon, you're always going to get like those people who are just like, well like nobody's gonna care or like what's the point and and and it's just like i get that i i definitely get that um but you know that self-reflection is just really important and they feel like they have to too when everybody else is doing it it's like oh well i guess i gotta do it and it's just like i mean no um you know use patreon as a tool as it's meant to be um and

26:18.79

Krispy

I think like figuring it out um along the way is going to be helpful. But before I go totally into that and start giving all the advice, I'm actually going to ask the next question that has ah much to do with that. So Delphi, ah tell us, what is your advice ah to someone who isn't sure they should even make a Patreon for their webcomic? What would you tell them?

26:46.04

Delphina

Well, to everyone's point here, sometimes it's not for everyone. Sometimes it's like just this huge mass of anxiety. I have seen creators who are just cannot not look at those numbers, and it's just pain.

27:00.02

Krispy

Mm hmm.

27:00.14

Delphina

And i like no but this is not required. this There are so many ways to like make a successful comic that involve money, that don't involve money. And if this is not the one for you, you don't have to do it, for sure. um so don't kind of it like Grass is greener on the other side sort of thing. like Just um check in with yourself to Bob's point and make sure that this is something that you want, that something that's not going to ruin your relationship with your own work.

27:32.27

Delphina

um But if it is, and if you want to get started, um again, ah keeping things sustainable for yourself is really good. um You can certainly start with with some you know grand opening sorts of things, but keep in mind that this can go on for years and years and years, as long as you're doing your comics, sometimes even longer if you have other projects going on. so um So some things that I like to do are just stuff that I would be doing anyway, right? So I am making comics anyway and showing them early to people is is pretty easy to do, right? So um so that was an easy reward for me to do as a webcomic artist um and so ah I started on the first Monday of the month for crops of upcoming panels that I like and again this this relies on me having a month of buffer, but I it does like you know just funny faces or something like that that will give people a little taste of what's coming up for um for the next few pages um and again that's something that i was already doing so it's easy to to offer to people.

28:47.89

Delphina

um and then um so i've So if I do four or eight pages a month, that's that's eight posts on my on the month already. um I've got my first Monday of the month, so that's another one. And then um I like to do a monthly special thing, and that rotates depending on what's on my plate.

29:06.24

Krispy

Oh!

29:08.82

Delphina

so About two times a year, I pick my favorite pieces of side art and develop them into a wallpaper pack and I size those to mobile and desktop because I'm always drawing my characters. I love drawing my characters and um and that's always pretty easy to put together. Just a little pack of three or four cool pieces of art that people might want to put on their wallpaper. Cool. um Sometimes you can you could do polls and stuff, so you could do a Q and&A comic um based on interesting questions from your comment section.

29:45.07

Delphina

Or if you have a community, sometimes it's fun to ask other comic creators like, hey, do you have any questions that that you want to see my characters answer and um and develop something fun for that?

29:53.37

Krispy

Mm hmm.

29:56.28

Delphina

um Again, I've done like things when I'm preparing a book for print anyway. um you know I could just show my edited page pages to patrons, like do a little scene, um and write a little bit to explain my goals in the chapter. um and And that's another thing that I would be doing anyway. um Some other things that I don't necessarily do anyway is is the like you know sometimes I'll put together world world building notes or or things like that. I feel like those those in the Q a q and&A comics are a little more work for me because that that is almost doing an entire page extra.

30:34.96

Krispy

Yeah.

30:36.11

Delphina

um But that can be fun every once in a while when I'm in the mood. And again, time lapse videos. um but yeah i've just have fun with it explore like have some like if you have any kind of idea of like hmm i wonder if this will work or if this won't work like try it see see what happens um there was one time i ran a reader ah poll to decide what a character would do next in the plot of my comic i gave them a couple different options and then

31:11.33

Delphina

like the patrons got like an actual like super vote or something to influence the results so there was a a special thing there and it kind of it was a little friendly competition people were like I think you should do this or I think you should do that and and making these arguments in the comment section that was really fun to watch um so

31:30.22

Krispy

if Yeah.

31:31.09

Bob

That sounds amazing.

31:32.39

Delphina

Yeah, ah um i mean it it requires ah some amount of flexibility in my plot, which not lot a lot of people don't have that, but you know if it works, you can do that. um Or do a little side story, that's fine too. um Patreon also has a giveaway option. like You can do special promotions that only last a month. um And I've done that before where I let every patron pick a sticker or a button from my convention stock and I mailed that to them for free. um That's getting worse with postage rates going up. And also the last one I did, like somehow I messed it up because they buried that. It used to be a lot more prominent of a feature, but like they've changed some some settings on the years over the years

32:22.63

Delphina

on patreon dot.com and I had to like find it again and it didn't get activated or for some reason and like I'm still working with their help center to like figure that out um so you could do that but presumably there is an option

32:28.87

Krispy

Oh.

32:41.48

Delphina

where your patrons can be summoned and say, hey, if you want this thing in the mail, give us your mailing address and and you can send them fun stuff. So if you're the kind of person who does a lot of conventions um and has just merch that you don't Want or you have extras of that could be a nice little reward too So um those are just a couple ideas if if you're kind of stuck for ideas But again, if you don't want to do any of that if that sounds like a lot of work and not fun You can also just open it as a tip jar. You can just say hey pay what you want um Support however you want and that is perfectly valid too. There's there's all kinds of ways to use the platform and

33:28.80

Krispy

I really enjoy that. I like that you have like a lot of flexibility and I think that's definitely important to kind of tackling this for sure. ah So Bob, how do you feel about this? What's your advice you'd like to give to someone who's not really sure they they should kind of pursue it?

33:48.82

Bob

So I do want to jump off of something that Delphi mentioned, which was, you know, when when you were talking about a lot of your rewards, so much of what you mentioned was work that you were doing anyway.

33:59.72

Krispy

Mm hmm.

34:00.13

Bob

um I think that one important thing to consider before launching in is setting a goal for yourself for like, why is it that you want to have a Patreon? And what do you want that money to do for you? What do you want that support to do for you? And the reason I say that is because I am a person who does a lot of rewards that I would not be doing anyway. And the danger of that, I mean, My goal going into my Patreon was that you know I wanted to shift away from the freelance that I didn't enjoy into you know making more money from the independent work that I really cared about. And so in that regard, whether I was getting paid to make my webcomic or whether I was getting paid to make the prose side story or whether I was getting paid to do monthly sketches,

34:54.80

Bob

all of that was fine with me. But the danger of that, of course, is that if your goal is first and foremost that you want to tell your webcomic as quickly as possible and that you really want to focus on your webcomic, all of those extras can really pull you away from that primary project.

35:07.12

Krispy

Yeah.

35:12.26

Bob

And you know one of the things that I've found is that those high effort extras can be very lucrative. And they can really pull you into like chasing after that money. And, you know, for me, because I i just really love the side projects. And, you know, I, you know, i I can't give them up, you know, like my comic that I just launched right now was technically a side project. But now it's my main project, because, you know, life changes in 10 years, and you're allowed to change in 10 years, and your Patreon can change in 10 years. And

35:43.54

Bob

You know, my Patreon definitely took a hit when I decided to shift my major project. But, but, you know, that's the beauty of it, though, is that like, you know, it's not like leaving a job where you're leaving cold turkey and you're leaving every single penny behind.

35:57.92

Krispy

Mm hmm.

35:58.38

Bob

A lot of your readers will follow you through, but you know having that kind of North Star knowing what you're aiming towards so that your rewards aren't pulling you away from your goal, I think that's an important thing to incorporate early on.

36:15.89

Krispy

Yeah, I ah wholeheartedly agree there. um You know, you mentioned like, having a lot of those extras and pulling away from web comics, and I definitely have seen the ah side effects of the frustrations that that brings ah to folks. Because, you know, we we often discuss about how long webcomics take to make. I mean, we're doing all the hats. We're doing every single thing to make these webcomics happen. And so when you have a Patreon that helps support that, ah releases pages, but also wants you to be a little bit more lucrative, like you said, Bob, with the Patreon,

36:54.90

Krispy

and decide to take a little bit extra. um You know, you just got to be really aware of where that energy is going to go. um Because I've seen burnout happen. and I've seen frustration happen, where it's just like, you know, oh gosh, I'm behind on the rewards I've promised for Patreon. on And, um you know, I'm also now behind on my buffer and stuff like that. Like, ah it's, it's tough it is a tough balance because it is a lot of work when you start kind of putting that um you know front and center of the things that you know that like the goals and stuff like that and i think you really do have to evaluate like what's what can i do here like is this sustainable and i think um like in anything especially webcomics it's just you really got to think like how sustainable is it and sustainable is is definitely um

37:48.49

Krispy

number one here in a lot of cases, for me personally anyway, um because I'm thinking about my own experiences with Patreon. And I like the idea of doing things I've already been doing, like we do pages Um, that's easy. Like, you know, um, our patrons are going to see the entire month's buffer already at the beginning of the month, just because we work a little ahead. Um, so they get like a whole batch reading of like nine to 10 pages, um, of one comic. And then I think it's four to five of the other, cause it doesn't update as much. Um, and then they also get, uh, all of the behind the scenes work that we've already done in pre-development because, um,

38:35.37

Krispy

working as a team ah to create Ghost Junk Sickness and Lunar Blight. We have all of the pre-production. We have a lot of the concept art and stuff like that we do right before we start the comic. And I think it's a cute little reward to kind of be like, hey, you can see all the crazy happenings and stuff like that, or look forward to seeing you know the construction of a scene that just went up um and stuff. And again, that's stuff that we already had ah lying around. And sometimes...

39:07.10

Krispy

Sometimes I wish I could pursue a little bit more of a ambitious kind of ah Patreon where I could specifically provide things ah that people want to see, like commissions, um even like specific illustrations that folks asked for. But I know at the end of the day, I'm just like, I'd like to do that, but I don't know if I can. And and i think I think that's just important to be like,

39:30.78

Bob

i feel that yeah

39:37.01

Krispy

I know my limits, I think, and I'm just like, i don't I don't want to face that disappointment in myself to be like, actually guys, I can't i can't do this. um And I am lucky enough that I'm in a position where I don't i don't need to hustle as intensely, um but um you know that that anxiety still exists with this stuff, always with monetary stuff.

39:54.00

Bob

I feel that.

40:04.30

Bob

yeah

40:07.80

Krispy

Um, I'm gonna hit pause. Hwah!

40:12.71

Delphina

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of anxiety around anything attached to money. It's it's tricky. um And I don't have a lot of great answers for it. But um I do feel like ah Patreon in particular has a lot of possibilities. um and you can just kind of You can change things as you go. You can try different things. I feel like sometimes I am being more closely observed than I probably am in terms of, like oh everyone's going to see I tried that thing and it didn't work and now I'm not doing it.

40:49.77

Bob

hahahaha

40:50.01

Krispy

Hahahaha

40:50.51

Delphina

and like ah That's not true. that Nobody's paying that close attention to you. Nobody is like saying, aha, Delfina, you didn't do the thing. Oh, shame on you. No. um Just kind of take it is as a like you know good faith. like The people who are there to support you are there because they like what you do. and I feel like that's that's the thing that kind of keeps me going with it is that, you know, maybe it's not a lot of people, maybe it's just a couple of people, but they they want to see me continue and they want to see me succeed. And I feel like that kind of relationship, knowing that I have that with some of my readers, where, you know, they are rooting for me. um Like, even if they don't have a lot to give, that that's important for me.

41:44.07

Delphina

that they're giving what they can um to help me succeed.

41:51.72

Bob

Yeah, I feel exactly the same way. like Whenever I get a little bit nervous about the money element of it, it always comes back to the community element of it. And that's really what drew me to Patreon in the first place, was that there is this core of readers who care that deeply about you, that even though they don't have to pay for your project, they choose to.

42:11.86

Krispy

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

42:15.05

Bob

And one of the things I've found over the years is that you know I've had patrons leave and then pledge again years later. like these are people who like you know Life circumstances happen. People you know have to cancel their pledges sometimes. It's usually not personal. It's almost never personal. and you know These people, they they come back and and they do care. That's something that you know I feel is harder and harder to get in the modern day internet. So to just have a circle of people where you're able to communicate with them, you're able to reach them, you're able to have that sort of feedback and connection, it just makes, because webcomics can be a really solitary and lonely type of activity.

43:06.49

Krispy

Mm hmm.

43:06.61

Bob

when you're just sitting alone, drawing by yourself all the time. And I think a lot of us, you know we we just really thrive on that feedback. And even when the feedback is just a silent, pledge of like a dollar or two dollars, that still says something. It says that there's someone there cheerleading for you. And and yeah, i to me, that makes a really huge difference. And it's just one of the reasons why I've continued on the platform for for as long as I have and why I have no plans of leaving it.

43:41.32

Krispy

I really like that. That's, that's really, that's, that's a good, that's a good note. and And I really hope that, you know, folks hearing this feel pretty encouraged to just be a little curious and, and you know, have that, you know, assurance that anything and everything like little or big or whatever, it it does matter and it does help.

43:46.99

Bob

Hahaha!

44:04.43

Krispy

And, you know, you can try it. And like Delphi said, that it's not like people have a microscope and they're like, hmm, Oh, oh, I saw that. like that Nobody's doing that. I like that a lot. ah um So with that, I feel absolutely, actually I do actually feel better. I'm gonna be truthful here. that It feels good to talk about Patreon and ah with both of your experiences, Delphie and Bob. And thank you so much, Bob, for being on this episode. I really appreciate it.

44:39.55

Bob

Oh, sure. It was awesome to be here and I really appreciate that you guys invited me. was I just really enjoyed talking to both of you.

44:46.18

Krispy

Heck yes! So we're always here to talk about webcomics especially. And with that, ah salad seees are wrap um I I've been Krispy, and you can find my works at ghostjunksickness.com and lunarblight.com.

45:03.83

Delphina

And I've been Delfina. You can find my comic, Sombulus, at sombulus.com.

45:10.23

Bob

And I'm Bob, and you can find me at inthesmokecomic.com and at demonoftheunderground.com.

45:19.55

Krispy

Heck yes. I actually had a chicken salad Caesar um before I started recording this, so very on theme.

45:25.00

Delphina

Oh, perfect. Did you pay for it with your Patreon money?

45:25.70

Bob

Wonderful.

45:27.65

Krispy

You know what?

45:31.24

Krispy

Yes, thank you readers. Thank you.

45:35.13

Delphina

Go support us on Patreon, buy us all wraps!

45:37.33

Krispy

Yes!