Webcomics are pretty great in our opinion, but they’re not the only way to get a narrative story out into the world. Prose has been an option forever, but today, with so many new technologies, there are so many more options available! You could use anything from video games to podcasts to tell a story.  But each option has its own pros and cons depending on what sort of project you’re building, and today we’re going to talk about them!

In this Episode:




• What kinds of non-webcomic projects have you done/considered for your ideas?
• What kinds of other options are out there that you think are cool, and how do they compare to webcomics?
• What is your advice to someone with a story, but they can’t decide if it should take webcomic form or something else?

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Episode Release Date: June 4, 2025

Episode Credits:

Rae Baade - they/them, https://empyreancomic.com

Miranda Schwemmer - she/her, https://mirandacakes.art https://intotheswellcomic.com 


Star Prichard - she/her, https://thestarfishface.com/ https://castoff-comic.com/

Bob Appavu - any, https://intothesmokecomic.com https://www.demonoftheunderground.com

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The Intro "DO IT (feat. Shia LaBeouf)", and the Outro "It's Good To See You Again!!", both by Adrianwave, have been used and modified in good faith under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Licensed. Edits include: Fade IN/OUT, and a repeat added to the beginning of "It's Good To See You Again!!". For more information on this creative commons use, please reference https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.

Transcription

This transcript is auto generated by our recording software.

00:01.89

Miranda

Hello and welcome to Miranda where we talk anything and everything webcomics. Today we're going to be talking about some of the alternate formats out there to webcomics and whether it's right for the type of project you're making as opposed to making a webcomic.

00:16.75

Miranda

I'm Miranda, my pronouns are she, her, and I make the webcomic Into the Swell.

00:23.00

Rae

And I'm Rae, my pronouns are they/them, and I make the webcomics Overlord of Ravenfell and On Empyrean High.

00:31.64

Star

I'm Star, I use she/her pronouns, and I make the comic Castoff.

00:36.65

Bob

And I'm Bob, I use any pronouns, and I make the webcomics Into the Smoke and Demon of the Underground.

00:44.16

Miranda

Hey, Webcomics are pretty great in our opinion, but they're not the only way to get a narrative story out into the world. Prose has been an option for forever, but today with so many new technologies, there are so many more options available to tell your story.

01:00.73

Miranda

You could use anything from video games to podcasts to illustrated novels, but each option has its own pros and cons depending on what sort of project you're building. And today we're going to talk about them.

01:13.71

Miranda

So to kick us off, let's talk about what kinds of non-webcomic projects you have done or considered when you've been building up your idea for webcomics. We'll start off with you, Rae.

01:28.93

Rae

Okay, I actually started out as a prose writer and did a lot of accompanying ah um illustrations for my projects. Comics honestly weren't even on my radar until I got into manga because they always seemed to me as something either in the newspaper or about superheroes.

01:47.46

Rae

So I've written a lot of short stories and short novels, and while I do tend to be a pretty visual person, though, so I'd often include illustrations with them.

02:03.50

Rae

So honestly, I probably read about as many novels as I do webcomics and comics, so it was kind of like natural for me to start writing prose.

02:19.85

Rae

I did have a very short stint in trying to do a visual novel, but I have discovered one thing and I honestly do not like coding, even though I know how to do it.

02:37.32

Miranda

Same.

02:38.28

Star

Relatable.

02:43.55

Miranda

um What about you, Star?

02:46.88

Star

So I actually um have some experience with this because ah so Castoff is my current webcomic project, but during the course of its many year development before I actually started it, making it as a webcomic, I actually did bounce around between a couple of different ideas.

03:05.19

Star

So um so The original version that Castoff took was a comic. I did it. I did like the first chapter as part of a school anthology comic.

03:16.12

Star

And then not long after that, I think maybe half a year after that, I was introduced to the idea of NaNoWriMo, which is National Novel Writing Month, where you try and write a 50,000 word novel in a month.

03:27.81

Star

um Because a friend of mine does it like every year, or at least they did back then. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, well, that sounds fun. I want to try that.

03:38.69

Star

And I've got this convenient little fantasy story kicking around in my brain right now.

03:39.46

Miranda

I know.

03:43.38

Star

Because at the time, I was already working on a different webcomic. And so it's like, I want to do Castoff. But my God, having two webcomics at the same time is too much. um So I actually do have a novelized version of Castoff floating around in the files on my computer.

04:00.62

Star

ah It's very bad.

04:00.88

Miranda

you

04:02.37

Star

And the only way that you can find it now is I have some live readings of it that I did for Patreon a few years ago, where like, you know, like six-ish years after I wrote it, I went and read parts of it live.

04:18.88

Star

And so recordings of that are available, but I never actually posted those ah those that prose version anywhere because it's bad But what I discovered doing that is that Castoff is a story that relies so heavily on very specific and subtle visuals that I didn't enjoy writing it as prose.

04:28.78

Bob

So.

04:45.44

Star

One, because I just wasn't as experienced with prose and I'm still not. I've only just very recently gotten back into trying prose again. Yeah. But ah there was just like so much where. I was writing the novel version of Castoff and thinking, this is taking too long to explain.

05:03.79

Star

Like could just draw this. And so at some point I just kind of dumped the prose version.

05:06.31

Miranda

Yeah.

05:09.15

Star

I'm like, nah, I think this has to be something visual. um And, you know, there's also like visual novel stuff, but that never really appealed to me as an option for Castoff as a story specifically. And so I just kept bouncing back to web comics and I'm like, well, guess we're doing web comics now.

05:24.73

Star

um But for other stories, I have considered other stuff, but I'll circle back to that when we get further into the conversation.

05:33.18

Miranda

yeah but I feel like, at least for me, what brings me to webcomics is a lot of like, I start thinking of the visuals and then I like with writing it down, you have to, you have to write it all.

05:48.29

Miranda

You have to write down when you could just draw what you want people to see and want like the visual you want. And it's both easier and harder.

05:57.11

Star

Yeah, exactly. But like, it's a double-edged sword, though.

05:58.61

Miranda

Yeah.

06:02.62

Star

Very much a double-edged sword. Because on the one hand, if you have a very specific visual you want to do, you're like, why do I need to describe this? I can just write it. But on the other hand, in a comic, if you want to draw like the armies clashing, you got to draw all that.

06:17.14

Miranda

Oh my gosh, yeah.

06:19.01

Star

Whereas in prose, you can just say the armies clashed. So it's like, it's a give and take, right?

06:22.31

Miranda

It's true. It's true. It's both ways.

06:26.49

Rae

It all depends on how many people you want to be drawn.

06:30.54

Star

Yup.

06:30.64

Miranda

True. True. This is why my comics have small casts.

06:33.02

Star

How many times do you want to...

06:36.89

Miranda

And no armies yet.

06:41.50

Miranda

What about you, Bob?

06:45.43

Bob

So, okay, so first of all, I love that we all kind of have the same backstory, similar backstories anyway, because I also like, I well, I started as a prose author too.

06:51.56

Star

You're...

06:56.28

Bob

um I you know, I was like, you know, doing traditional publishing, and you know, at the same time as I was launching my first webcomic, because this was back when you couldn't really make a living from webcomics.

07:07.98

Bob

And, um you know, I've been writing my entire life and drawing came later to me. So I'm kind of like the reverse of Star.

07:15.89

Miranda

Mm-hmm.

07:17.49

Bob

And this doesn't surprise me at all because I look at Castoff and it feels so like visual and cinematic. So I'm like, yeah, this needs to be a comic.

07:24.19

Star

ah

07:26.21

Bob

But for me, like my brain works very much more like prose, where I feel it's so much easier to describe something than to draw it because i'm always like well what is the character thinking what are they feeling what is the the mental struggle they're going through and that's hard to do in visuals for me i'm just like well I can just say it in prose so that's just like for me it almost feels like cheating to just write it down instead of drawing it so whenever like whenever I switch back to prose i'm like oh no i'm cheating because i'm not actually putting in the effort to like draw it all out

07:46.32

Star

you

07:59.63

Bob

But um I don't really do traditional prose publishing anymore because I just, you know, it's not, I love everything up until the moment it's published and then everything after it's published is not fun to me in traditional publishing.

08:13.37

Miranda

Yeah.

08:14.32

Bob

So, I also do, um, Patreon extras mostly like I do like full like novels, um, as like side stories and backstories that are related to my comic projects and I release them in serialized form.

08:30.14

Bob

And then when they're finished, I generally release them as like an ebook, although I've only like gotten to that point with, I think one of them, the rest of them are kind of epic length.

08:42.28

Bob

So um the other thing I have done ah is I did do a visual novel. um I think it was, I wanna say like 2022 because I was super burned out on web comics at that time. It was the pandemic.

08:57.44

Bob

I was doing my webcomic like almost full time, but then suddenly my freelance clients wanted like a ton of freelance work from me and I just burned out and I was like, I'm never going to do comics again. Like I just like just kind of like withdrew from like comic community and like just was like, but then like I played like the Ace Attorney series for the first time and it was just like so inspiring.

09:22.47

Bob

And it was the first time I realized that that format is something that's actually within our reach now technologically. And unlike Rae, I mean, I don't, okay, I don't love coding.

09:33.94

Bob

That would be a full lie, but I don't hate it enough to not do it.

09:37.08

Miranda

Yeah.

09:38.54

Bob

yeah.

09:38.74

Miranda

but

09:39.28

Bob

so

09:40.24

Rae

That's fair.

09:40.33

Bob

I do prefer pro.

09:40.51

Star

unnecessary evil.

09:41.83

Bob

Yes, I will take pros over coding any day.

09:42.12

Miranda

yeah

09:45.70

Bob

But I think that, you know, when we'll get to this later, probably, but I think there are some coding options and some technology options that are simple enough. You don't need to be an expert at coding, at least.

09:57.10

Miranda

Yeah. Yeah. That's, it blows my mind that any of you would actually code your own ah visual novel. um Like I don't like coding to that level that I would never even consider that for myself, but I'm, I'm on the same page as you.

10:15.59

Star

I mean, from what I understand, there's like,

10:19.57

Rae

yeah There are a lot of programs that will minimize the coding experience for you. There's actually even a console ah RPG maker that you can that you can get that um you can make little RPGs on it and stuff like that. And I think there's a few visual novel engines out there that can really streamline the process for you.

10:44.43

Miranda

no I mean, I still probably wouldn't consider it, but nice to know there's options. um But yeah, I'm similar in your shoes, Bob, of prose came first for me and art came way later.

10:58.04

Miranda

And so sometimes it is like, I would be so much faster if I was just writing this book instead of trying to make it into a comic. But sadly, weren't that's not where I'm at. I want it as a comic. And so we're stuck with it as a comic.

11:14.25

Star

That's just the way.

11:14.12

Miranda

um But yeah, I know, right?

11:19.09

Bob

Yeah, like that's exactly how I feel. But I also agree with Star like very much that some stories are just made for a particular format. And, you know, once I realized that, that kind of complicates the decision, though, because then you kind of have to evaluate each story and be like, well, which one does this really fit?

11:39.27

Bob

And if you love multiple formats, it's like, oh, no, now I have to decide. And that's a whole other difficulty if you have trouble making decisions like I do.

11:45.87

Star

Mm-hmm.

11:46.13

Miranda

Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. Um, which I mean, we're kind of branching into that. So let's jump to what are all the kinds of options that you can use for your stories and how would you compare them to just the process of making a, ah well, quote unquote, standard web comic, um,

12:08.47

Miranda

Like I know we've talked about prose, visual novels, what else is there? um Let's go with Rae to start.

12:19.19

Rae

Alright, I would say honestly, we ah some stories really do lend themselves better to other formats. Even though prose is faster than webcomics, you can just draw it out.

12:34.67

Rae

But also you have to consider that first person prose is really good for stories that happen internally.

12:40.12

Star

you

12:43.41

Rae

If too much of your story is taking place in the character's head, maybe prose would be a more interesting experience than a comic because, you know, it would just be the character standing around with a thought bubble above his head.

12:56.56

Rae

um

12:56.70

Miranda

Thank

12:58.08

Rae

but If you want to juxtapose the difference between what's in their head and what's outside of it is where I think a comic could really shine. Um, I do think light novels are kind of a good in between because you still get that visual, um, that visual aspect to it.

13:20.29

Rae

Um, and for games I think really work good for branching storylines and then there's animations just the whole nother beast to be honest it's sequential yeah but oh my god the work for it um I do think audio fiction is really interesting considering that it's

13:41.26

Miranda

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

13:42.94

Bob

Yep. yup

13:48.35

Rae

been catching on but it also has the whole like old-timey radio feel sometimes. I will say one thing that I think some web comics could benefit from is turning things into a tabletop RPG because sometimes I'll look at a fantasy novel or comic and go oh, the author wants to show all this lore, but it's kind of to the detriment of the plot.

14:19.35

Star

Mm-hmm.

14:19.91

Rae

So what are pretty much tabletop RPGs other than an interactive lore experience? So I'm kind of, and especially if the author has trouble making the actual plot part of it, I think that could be an interesting way to go.

14:28.90

Miranda

So true.

14:40.82

Miranda

That's good.

14:41.70

Bob

Yeah, that's such an interesting thought that I hadn't, you know, it hadn't occurred to me before the idea of a tabletop RPG.

14:48.73

Miranda

Yeah, I,

14:49.29

Star

Yeah, just like building out a setting and then releasing it for people to play around in.

14:52.34

Rae

Yeah, I know some people who their entire hobby is world building, but the comic is essentially the form that it takes.

14:53.41

Miranda

yeah.

15:03.43

Rae

So it's something that I think some people can consider, especially if the world building is the part that they really enjoy.

15:04.11

Miranda

Mm-hmm.

15:12.53

Bob

Oh, that's so true.

15:12.76

Star

I've definitely... read books that felt like that. I, ah I, so I've actually, I think I said this earlier, I've been trying to get back into prose um just because I have other stories that I would like to experiment with, but Castoff is my baby. And also at this point it is now part of my job. And so I can't take enough time away from it to do two webcomics simultaneously.

15:34.81

Star

ah so I've been farting around with some short stories, just kind of like loosely based on D and D campaigns that I've done. And just these characters I have in my head. um But in an effort to, you know, like, learn more about prose and kind of like get deeper into the medium, I've been reading a lot more. I've been making more time for it.

15:54.47

Star

And I've been working my way through Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. And oh, my God.

15:59.39

Miranda

of

16:01.01

Star

It's like, listen, I'm enjoying it. But oh, my God.

16:05.07

Miranda

that's ah That's a beastie book to start with

16:07.92

Star

It is... it was not what I started with.

16:08.36

Bob

Yeah.

16:10.21

Star

I had, like, a couple of light snacks first, and then my friends were like, hey, if you really want something like epic fantasy, you could try Way of Kings. And I'm like, I'm already a Barnes & Noble.

16:24.20

Bob

Yeah.

16:24.31

Star

It's taken me, like, two months, and I'm only like...

16:24.40

Miranda

with. Never get book suggestions while you're in a bookstore.

16:28.81

Star

Yeah, I'm just like, this thing is a brick.

16:29.69

Bob

yeah

16:31.22

Star

It is going to take me six months to read. But I mean, the interesting thing that I found while reading that one is I think another way that prose might be better. We talked about like internal versus external stuff with like character dialogue and stuff and how web comics may or may not make that easier or more difficult.

16:49.63

Star

Another thing that I found reading that book, reading Way of Kings, is that it is a very complicated world setup. But it's so easy to just, for him to just drop in like little puzzle pieces. It's like, oh yeah, it's like, you know, a character will be kind of like narrating to themselves and it'll just casually drop in. Oh, and then this is the thing about how the world works. And I'm just thinking like in webcomics, in comics in general, it would be so much harder to just casually drop in these little sprinkles of world building. And I feel like that's something that prose lends to a little easier.

17:27.44

Star

Because it's a little bit more internally focused. Does that make sense?

17:29.05

Miranda

Yeah. and It makes a lot of sense. because like if um I feel like most lore dumps or lore hints are always written in webcomics, and so then it kind of throws you off of the comic because it's just a page of the lore dump, and that's something that is frowned upon?

17:48.54

Miranda

Quote, unquote?

17:49.25

Star

lore dumps my enemy. If you put like a six page long lore dump in your webcomic, I'm going to get you.

17:51.72

Miranda

Yeah.

17:56.05

Star

Especially if it's the first thing I have to read.

17:56.37

Miranda

Exactly. Yeah.

17:59.91

Miranda

Yeah.

18:00.80

Rae

Honestly, I gotta disagree a little bit, but it also depends on the kind of world building you're trying to do. Like, if you want to go, oh, this, like...

18:12.60

Rae

tall gothic architecture you can draw that rather than you know tell people that so you can you can do it visually it's just a different kind of world building that you're that you're extrapolating on than actually speaking it

18:27.78

Star

Oh, sure.

18:35.64

Bob

Yeah, but I find that for me, because I'm also like a very heavy world builder, and I think that's probably why I'm so drawn to prose, because what I found with web comics is that if you want to go on like a little tangent or, you know, explain a little thing, suddenly that's an extra month on your schedule.

18:53.71

Star

yeah

18:54.71

Miranda

Oh my gosh.

18:55.73

Bob

So I like literally because I you know I had this side character who's like a fan favorite character.

18:55.39

Miranda

Yeah.

19:02.77

Bob

I was you know, obsessed with him and wanted to learn more about him, tell more about him. And I'm like he is going to take over the entire web comic. But I could write this as a side story And then I won't be tempted to derail myself in the main story.

19:18.73

Bob

And I feel like that's one of the big benefits with any sort of side pro ah format, whether it's um prose or anything like that. If it's less labor intensive than comics and it's not going to add extra months or years to your schedule just to, you know, derail yourself a little bit.

19:37.08

Miranda

Mm-hmm.

19:37.69

Rae

Yeah, side stories could be really good. I actually did do a lot of prose side stories for my first webcomic for like largely the same reasons because everyone wanted to know about the quirky little vampire character that was the fan favorite. And I'm like, I don't have time for that. I'm going to write prose.

19:58.75

Star

Yeah, I also found, like, I'm newer to prose.

19:59.16

Miranda

hit

20:01.73

Star

I probably have, I have arguably way less experience than most folks in here. um But I do also find that in prose, it's easier to just, you know, go off just on a little tangent between, like, lines of dialogue or something.

20:14.47

Star

And, like, you know, it just takes, like, a paragraph, and you can get a little information across to the reader, and it's not going to take a month's worth of comic pages to get that across, right?

20:15.39

Miranda

Yeah.

20:25.41

Star

You just sprinkle in like little tidbits of fun things for the reader.

20:25.78

Bob

Yeah, yeah.

20:29.33

Miranda

Or even, even just like footnotes.

20:32.91

Star

Yeah.

20:32.60

Miranda

I mean, If footnotes are done right in a novel, I love them. Like, because you can get that extra world building or you can just skip over it and keep reading and not be derailed by this little dump of stuff. um And I mean, you could probably pull that off in webcomics, but not as seamlessly.

20:54.39

Rae

Keikaku means plan.

20:54.51

Star

yes

20:54.83

Miranda

but

20:57.09

Bob

laughter

20:59.04

Star

Yeah, there but there's one specific like, bit in Way of Kings that I'm thinking about specifically where he's talking about like the cultural significance of like, the sleeves on these garments that some of the characters wear.

21:02.75

Miranda

but

21:11.54

Star

And I'm like, yeah, in a webcomic, you could just, you know, show these characters having these sleeves. But like, everyone in the world already knows why the sleeves are there. And so in order to explain why the sleeves are like that, you'd have to have a character either think to themselves and do it with thought bubbles or just like try to shoehorn in a conversation between two characters who already know why people are wearing sleeves like that to get that information across to the audience.

21:40.70

Star

But in prose, it's just like, oh, and she wore her sleeve like this because of this reason. And it's just so much easier. And I'm like, you can just do that? Oh my God.

21:51.86

Bob

Yeah, that kind of makes me think about um light novels because one of the things that I always struggled with, like I was always fascinated with with um light novels and illustrated novels, but I never really mastered actually doing it because I am such a descriptive writer where you know when I write a paragraph and I put in like all the symbolism and I put in all the metaphor, I'm like, okay, this is done. It doesn't need anything else.

22:20.73

Bob

But the light novel format is interesting because, you know, it's not it's not dense in the way that I write. So it leaves more room and leaves more air to be filled in with imagery and with like illustration.

22:34.24

Bob

Like I always feel like for the type of ah writing I do, that illustration would just be so extra but I really like it when I know a lot of people who do ah illustrated novels really effectively and one of the great things about it is when they're able to use the illustrations to say something that the prose doesn't already say and that's something that I really want to like figure out how to do better

23:04.06

Rae

Yeah, I think um Scott McCloud actually calls it like supportive text versus illustration.

23:03.92

Miranda

Bye.

23:14.74

Rae

you have the text either like fill in the blanks of the illustration or you have it like reiterate as a sort of emphasis, which is actually a comic technique.

23:28.86

Rae

So I think... I think with a lot of illustrated novels, there should be like some aspect of considering when to have an illustration.

23:43.50

Rae

And that's actually pretty similar in comics. It's like, what do you explain versus what do you show? Mm-hmm.

23:48.98

Star

Mm-hmm. Show versus tell and all that.

23:54.29

Miranda

This is interesting because I feel like I've never, and maybe I have, and I'm just not thinking of it, but I haven't like read a novel where the illustrations did that.

23:55.45

Bob

Okay.

24:04.19

Miranda

Like the illustrations always were illustrating something that was written, not adding more to it, just like adding more that was unwritten.

24:14.78

Miranda

written So it's an interesting thought to do a book or a novel that way. um where both parts are just as important to the storytelling.

24:28.60

Bob

Yeah, I actually kind of experimented with that for my college thesis. I was doing a sort of comic ah slash novel hybrid because this was back when I was much more of a prose novelist, when comics were even harder for me. And I was like, well, I just want to be able to write a really wordy comic, please. And you know now I kind of I kind of realized you know the audience or the audiences are different for um you know things that are very text heavy and I can live with that now.

24:56.43

Bob

But my end result for that project was it kind of looked a little textbook like. and so it wasn't the ideal way to get it across. And that's why I'm still, you know, I feel like vertical scroll comics really open a door where you could experiment with that sort of thing, because you have the opportunity to break up text more or to, you know, you use a

25:18.19

Miranda

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

25:18.82

Bob

or to use ah CSS or other like kind of programming techniques to you know do light animations or to display text in more of um ah in like with a different sort of pacing.

25:34.16

Bob

And so IT kind of want to experiment with that someday to see it because I love my first webcomic is traditional page format.

25:34.90

Miranda

her

25:42.75

Bob

My second is vertical scroll, but I feel like there's so much room to just try different things with it ah with scroll formats.

25:50.51

Miranda

hu Yeah, the scroll format really seems to open up a lot of storytelling options. And it definitely has its uses, even if you're like trying to like planning to print. So you're opting for page format. I Scroll is definitely a fun way to read as well. And almost a different reading experience, even if you're reading the same story in page format versus scroll.

26:22.13

Miranda

um

26:25.99

Bob

Yeah, the way that you can paste things and do reveals, the way, um you know, just the order in which a reader processes the images, it's so different. So you just have a lot more room to play around with, you know, how that information is presented and how you want to do big moments, big, big reveals. It's really fun. But I just, you know I'm pretty new to it. So I'm still ah kind of learning and have a lot more experimenting to do.

26:53.51

Miranda

We all just need more time to experiment and do all of these things and all of the formats.

26:57.90

Star

Yes, please.

26:59.19

Miranda

um So if anyone can just invent a time machine or something to like freeze time for a little bit when you just need that extra hour or two, that'd be great. Let us know. We'll sponsor you in a completely free and unpaid sort of way.

27:13.08

Miranda

um

27:13.60

Star

Well, I'll get pom-poms and just go, yeah!

27:16.54

Bob

Yeah.

27:17.19

Miranda

Yes, we'll support you and cheer you on and use it also.

27:21.87

Star

Moral support.

27:22.18

Miranda

Definitely. I want to take it back to the tabletop RPG aspect because I had a thought come up on that. But I feel like a lot of comic planning and story planning in general is like figuring out the main points and then you have to figure out how to get your characters from point A to point B. And that track like that um traversing of the points is sometimes the hardest thing to write and come up with.

27:52.02

Miranda

And if you do a tabletop RPG, you don't have to do that. You just have to provide point A and point B. And it's up to the players and the characters that they make to decide how they're getting there.

28:04.07

Miranda

So that definitely could be a benefit if you're really stuck on how to connect all of your dots. um You can just like maybe a tabletop RPG is the way to go for you.

28:21.92

Rae

And the thing is, it doesn't even need to be a tabletop RPG. You could just role play with friends, especially if you want that interactive experience. You could also turn role play into a comic because, um...

28:38.17

Rae

You know, that actually appears to be pretty common. I've done it. Most of my comics are actually from RPs.

28:42.31

Miranda

Mm-hmm.

28:46.16

Rae

um There is also that sort of randomness that comes from rolling the die that can help influence the decisions and where to go in a project as well.

28:59.90

Rae

But you can also implement that in into... um into the comics if you want. I know the Death Note creators would flip a coin to see whether light would succeed or fail at certain ah pivotal points.

29:18.72

Bob

Oh, that's amazing.

29:19.63

Miranda

That seems so fitting for

29:27.48

Miranda

And that kind of brings us to what is your y'all's advice for someone with a story, but they can't decide what form they want to get this story out into the world as?

29:41.69

Miranda

um what would you have them think about? What advice would you give them? And we'll bring it back to Rae to start this one off.

29:53.17

Rae

Foremost, I would probably say that you should ask yourself what audience experience do you want your readers to have? And that is pretty much as vast as there are mediums for storytelling right now.

30:11.50

Rae

So I would, it's definitely a valid question and each one has a different sort of vibe to it as well as benefits and ah cons. and another thing is you have to,

30:30.36

Rae

decide would you actually enjoy making something in this format in a sustainable manner um like I know a lot of former comic artists that switched to prose because they had arthritis issues or some other issue that made it to where they could not do comics anymore and I know a lot of animators that switched to comics for much the same reason So it really depends on both your enjoyment factor and your physical limitations.

31:09.27

I think that the work to output ratio is something that's important for when you're deciding what kind of medium you want to use for your storytelling, because with something like an animation, you're putting in so much work and doing so many drawings for arguably the smallest amount of output.

31:45.06

Star

Um, because, you know, it'll take you hours and hours to draw one, like four second scenes.

31:46.53

Miranda

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

31:50.21

Star

And then you got to the rest of it, all of it. Uh, whereas web comics are kind of like this happy little medium where, yeah, you're drawing a lot. Um. But you're also, you know, like churning out a decent amount of story much faster than an animation would.

32:05.87

Star

And then you have something like prose, where I found that prose can honestly be the fastest because you're just typing and you don't have to worry about the technical, like art drawing side of it.

32:06.04

Miranda

the

32:17.33

Star

ah Yeah, prose has got to go fast. Yeah.

32:19.21

Miranda

a

32:20.46

Star

I had this epiphany recently because I was writing a short story and I'm like, what do you mean I can just sit and write a couple thousand words over the course of like a week and have like a fully finished chapter of a story done in like three days?

32:36.51

Star

That takes me like a year in comic time. What the hell?

32:41.60

Miranda

Why do we do this to ourselves?

32:45.81

Star

ah Because

32:46.07

Miranda

Because we love it.

32:47.36

Star

because art

32:48.80

Miranda

Yeah.

32:49.62

Star

And the need to be vulnerable and present the stories that we have in our little heads for an audience.

32:49.60

Miranda

Yeah.

32:55.83

Star

um But yeah, and I mean, there's also the ones we didn't go into, which is like visual novels where it's like, you know, you draw a lot of sprites.

32:56.45

Miranda

Yes.

33:06.01

Star

and those can be faster to draw than like full comic pages and they're definitely faster to draw than like animations but there's also limitations within that medium you gotta code you gotta worry about music which is like one of the reasons that i've kind of avoided visual novels is I don't know anything about composing music and I don't know anyone who could do that for me and also i'm scared of coding even if there's ways to make it easier i'm just like yeah

33:25.37

Miranda

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

33:32.07

Star

um And yeah, it also does very much depend on like the type of audience you are trying to court with this story because someone who's interested in a webcomic might not be interested in a visual novel.

33:42.52

Star

Someone who reads primarily prose might not be as interested in watching your animation. um It just kind of depends on like the communities you want to be involved in and how, like what kind of experience do you want marketing?

33:55.45

Star

Because marketing is another thing entirely. One of the hardest things with prose, if you're just doing prose with no illustrations, you are very limited on the amount of visuals that you have, especially if you don't also draw.

33:58.47

Miranda

Ugh, not getting in.

34:11.74

Star

Because, you know, when people are scrolling social media and they're looking for something new to check out, what are they more likely to click on? a story with pictures that draws them in or something that's just words? Just words is way harder to promote. Can my cat please stop ripping up boxes right behind me?

34:30.25

Star

Milo. Milo, please.

34:33.57

Star

I am recording a podcast and you're a nightmare child. Go away

34:38.19

Miranda

ah

34:41.60

Star

Sorry. I'm in the middle of packing and my cat was like, she's ripping packages.

34:44.03

Miranda

Cat ripping boxes at 34.

34:44.50

Bob

but...

34:51.98

Star

She's like ripping the packing tape off of some boxes. And I'm like, that's probably picking up on the mic because I'm also talking right now. God, Milo, please.

35:04.10

Bob

But yeah, Star, you bring up an interesting point though, because that's one of the things that I struggled with probably the most when I was doing both prose and visual novels.

Bob

One of the things I feel is that comics has the lowest barrier to entry for the reader. I mean, it's a very high barrier to entry for us because we do so much work for it, but you literally just have to put an image up And immediately, whoever is seeing it is processing what you've made. And they don't even have to want to.

35:36.02

Bob

They have no choice. It's in front of their face. They're already processing your work. But for every other format, for prose, you have to convince someone to read it. You know, for a video, you have to convince someone to press play. For a visual novel, you have to convince someone to download it. And their specs have to, you know, be compatible with what you made.

35:54.37

Bob

And, you know, that's another thing with visual novels is it can go obsolete because technology changes this, this ah you know, whatever platform you use to build it. If it stops being maintained, then maybe a few years in the future, no one's going to be able to play your game anymore.

36:10.62

Bob

Though I do want to say um just a couple quick tips.

36:11.19

Miranda

Mm-hmm.

36:14.20

Bob

If people are interested in visual novels, Renpi, it's R-E-N apostrophe P-Y is great for just, you know, very low, you know, Low coding, just everything's like built in. You still have to code a little bit, but it's based on Python. It's very um relatively user friendly and Audacity is a great free audio editing program.

36:36.64

Bob

um There are a lot of people also in the visual novel community who will um love to, you know, a lot of ah sound designers and a lot of musicians who are happy to collaborate.

36:50.27

Bob

And so there are a lot of opportunities there that one of the things about visual novels, and this is another another thing to consider, is that some formats are great for. um single creators and some formats lend themselves more to teams. And a lot of, there are a lot of ah solo developers for visual novels, but a lot of them are made by teams and that's because they require such a vast skill set.

37:17.02

Bob

There are, you know, a lot of them will have their own musicians, their own sound designers, even their own writers and separate artists, sometimes even separate sprite artists and separate background artists. And um also as Star mentioned, the audience,

37:32.22

Bob

doesn't always carry over from one format to another. So if you are just going into this because you want to explore, because you want to be creative, um there's no downside to trying anything.

37:46.46

Bob

But if your goal is to either engage with your current audience or reach new people, you really do have to enter into these separate communities and understand why the people who use these formats enjoy it, why the readers enjoy it, why the creators enjoy it.

38:03.27

Bob

And it's just an entire kind of different world. And how much time do you have to be in multiple different worlds? That's always what it comes down to for me is you know, how much can I divide up my time?

38:15.69

Bob

Because if I wasn't concerned about time, I would be dabbling in everything. I love trying new formats.

38:21.06

Miranda

Yes.

38:22.64

Bob

But yeah, it's just um some things to think about.

38:29.22

Rae

That is very interesting that you said you have to understand why people enjoy the mediums that they're doing because it's true.

38:39.97

Rae

I've seen a lot of would-be comic writers get into comics solely as a stepping stone for animation, but they don't actually understand why people like comics.

38:49.93

Star

Mm-hmm.

38:51.13

Bob

Oh yeah.

38:56.67

Rae

They just view it as a cheaper alternative to animation. And you can usually tell.

39:07.02

Star

ah

39:07.85

Bob

That is so true.

39:08.19

Rae

so

39:09.14

Bob

Yeah.

39:10.34

Rae

So it's, and it's the same for other mediums. You can tell when the passion for the medium isn't there, which is why I emphasize you should do something where you actually enjoy the process.

39:25.28

Miranda

Definitely. And especially with all of these and just time being such a limited resource that it is, if you're not enjoying what you're spending your time on, find something else.

39:28.59

Star

you

39:37.06

Miranda

Try something else and do like benefit yourself and make it something you enjoy.

39:45.83

Star

Yeah, I mean, with me, it's like, you know, I had this idea for a project I've been working on that, like I said, is kind of loosely based on some of the D&D characters that I've come up with. And I'm like, oh, you know what might be fun is making that like a visual novel with alternate roots, and then each one kind of focuses on a different character.

40:04.06

Star

That could be cool as a visual novel. But one of the things that made me shy away from that, aside from, you know, not ever doing that sort of thing before and having to learn this whole new medium, that that's an entirely different vault on its own.

40:16.72

Star

But the other fact of the matter is that I don't know much about visual novels. I've only played a handful in my entire life. And so I feel like I need to learn more about the medium before trying to jump in and do that for myself. And that's why, like I said, I've been reading more because I want to get more into prose writing. And so I've been picking up more books and I've been reading more prose and I've been figuring out like,

40:39.73

Star

what I like versus what the author's priorities are and just learning more about the medium. And I think that before you take a step into a new medium, I think that learning what is possible with that medium, learning what other people have done with it is a very good first step.

40:53.89

Bob

and That is so true. And also a really important point that ah whatever you want to make, ideally you enjoy consuming it too. I hate to use the word consume, but like you just like, it has to be something where, you know, you're not going into it because you disrespected and you want to change it.

41:02.93

Star

Yes.

41:11.73

Bob

There has to be something about it that you love and that draws you into it. And the more you're reading it, the more you're watching or playing or whatever, the more you'll, you know, internalize that and understand, I think.

41:53.65

Bob

So one of the other things that I was looking into a while back when audio, but when one of the things I was looking into a while back when audio books started getting really big was, you know, is there an opportunity to translate some of this storytelling into an audio format?

42:56.89

Bob

um I looked into it. I admit I didn't delve very deep because I, you know, I only have my one voice and I'm not an actor and voice actors are are pretty expensive and audio design in general for someone who isn't themselves an audio designer is is also, ah you know, it's it's daunting and expensive and it felt a little bit out of my realm.

43:21.07

Bob

But, um you know, they're There are a lot of people who are making, you know, ah fiction drama podcasts or just translating their prose into audio books.

43:33.02

Bob

The key is that not all prose translates well into audio because, you know, it's written for the eyes. So you kind of if you know you're going to ah make your prose into audio, you kind of have to write it a little bit differently so that someone who's just listening to it can understand.

43:52.29

Bob

um And I'm wondering if anyone else has had more experience with that than I have.

43:59.74

Star

Yeah, I mean, okay, so I haven't done, like, write a thing as a prose novel and then turn it into an audiobook, but I have my YouTube channel. It's something that I've considered playing with.

44:14.64

Star

um Some of the short stories I've written, I've considered turning into video format by doing, like, being my own audiobook narrator essentially and adding like some music and sound effects and things.

44:25.12

Star

Because I've done stuff similar to that in the past. I wrote like a horror short story a couple of years ago and I went and like I added music and some sound effects and stuff and I had a bunch of fun with it.

44:37.24

Star

um that video is not super popular because it came out really early on in my channel's life. And so most people probably don't even know it exists. um But I've been thinking about doing some more stuff along those lines, just because I think for some people that enjoy listening to stories more than like actually reading them, that might be a way to get them into some of like these little short stories I'm writing. It's just,

44:58.38

Star

narrate them myself but like you said you do kind of have to write them in a specific way so that they make sense for audiobooks um because I have heard that there's like a problem with audiobooks that you can tell it was not written for audiobooks and the way it was formatted and so then the audiobook quality kind of suffers um But on the topic of audio mixing and doing all that sort of stuff, a big project that I have that I've been working on for over a year at this point is I'm taking the first arc from one of my D&D campaigns and I'm basically turning it into...

45:33.56

Star

It's sort of, it's not a full audiobook, but it's like an audio summary of the events of the campaign. And then I'm like, I'm adding music, I'm adding sound effects. I got some of my other players and some friends to do voice acting for it.

45:48.68

Star

um Most of it's not voice acted. There's just like a couple of little snippets where it's like, it's easier for me to do this if I just have the characters actually say what their lines of dialogue were in the moment. um And then I'm actually I'm also adding like some visuals to it because I'm drawing and I'm kind of like loosely storyboarding it.

46:05.29

Star

um And so it's kind of like taking an illustrated novel, but then also merging that audio drama portion into it. And at the time that this is going to be posted, it's not done yet.

46:16.29

Star

ah Because like I said, it's going to be over an hour and a half long. It has taken me over a year on and off to work on it. But someday I'll have a finished product to show for it. It's coming. I promise. I swear. It's just, again,

46:28.43

Star

It takes a long time. um But if that's something that you think you have an interest in, if you like like the idea of you know like finding some copyright-free music, which is what I've been doing, and like kind of messing with the audio, I personally find it kind of therapeutic and fun to do the soundscaping for like certain scenes, especially really ominous stuff.

46:50.36

Star

I do think there's potential.

46:50.88

Miranda

At

46:51.35

Star

I don't think it's for everybody. But if you think that that might be a product you would have fun with, Maybe experiment with it? Try a little something?

47:01.88

Star

Could be fun.

47:03.60

Miranda

And that's just the moral of this episode.

47:04.50

Bob

Definitely.

47:07.13

Miranda

If we have morals. I can't think of a different word for that. But just there's so many options and you can try them all. You can find what works for you. You just have to try and experiment. And if we all had more time, we would probably be doing a lot of these at the same time. But sadly, time is a resource and you have to use it efficiently for what you want to do most.

47:35.65

Miranda

um oh

47:37.16

Star

Yep.

47:37.15

Miranda

Most of the time. Sometimes you might be capable of doing multiple things.

47:39.70

Star

But experimentation is fun.

47:41.95

Miranda

Yeah. But experiment. Try different things. You don't even have to finish the thing that you try. You can start it and let it go when you're done with it. um But find what you enjoy most and find what form fits your story and make it happen.

48:01.42

Miranda

um Maybe webcomics aren't your thing. If they aren't, then we're glad you're still listening to this podcast. um But like, don't don't feel locked into a medium. There's so much more out there that you can try that might work better for your story and you just haven't found it yet.

48:20.23

Miranda

um So experiment, keep trying, um make mistakes, be messy.

48:27.07

Miranda

I'm thinking of Miss Frizzle from the Magic School Bus. I can't remember her phrase, but If you know, you know. um and with that, I think that is a Caesar salad wrap fitting because today is the Ides of March when we're recording, not when we're releasing.

48:37.43

Bob

Yeah.

48:44.32

Miranda

I've been your host, Miranda, and you can check out my work at https://mirandacakes.art.

48:57.83

Rae

And I've been Rae. You can find my works https://empyreancomic.com Overlord of Ravenfell is on Webtoon.

49:08.23

Star

I've been Star the whole time and you can read my comics on https://castoff-comic.com

49:16.34

Bob

And I'm Bob, and you can find my works at intothesmokecomic.com and demonoftheunderground.com.

49:28.00

Miranda

We made it. I made it. You guys were fine the whole time.

49:30.86

Bob

Woohoo! Oh, yeah.

49:31.75

Miranda

I made it. Gotta love internet issues.

49:35.35

Star

Yee-haw.