Let’s not lie to ourselves: we’ve all been in the misery pit before, thinking about the poignant and tragic beginnings to our character’s stories. Tragic backstories are a trope for a reason: painful experiences can add depth and catharsis to characters. But how do we make them resonate with our audiences emotionally?

In this episode....

Tell us about your use of the tragic backstory trope. Who’s your saddest blorbo?

What kinds of issues can happen when you use tragic backstories?

What is your advice for someone who’s looking to make their tragic backstories emotionally relevant?

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Episode Release Date: February 12, 2025

Episode Credits:

Ally Rom Colthoff (@varethane) - she/they, chirault.sevensmith.net wychwoodcomic.com

Kristen Lee (@feathernotes) - she/they, ghostjunksickness.com lunarblight.com

Christina Major (@delphina2k) - she/her, sombulus.com

Rae Baade (@overlordrae) - they/them, empyreancomic.com

Star Prichard (@starfishface) - she/her, thestarfishface.com castoff-comic.com

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Promo Details

Grab a plushie of Vector from Castoff for a limited time!

https://www.makeship.com/products/vector-plushie

The Intro "DO IT (feat. Shia LaBeouf)", and the Outro "It's Good To See You Again!!", both by Adrianwave, have been used and modified in good faith under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Licensed. Edits include: Fade IN/OUT, and a repeat added to the beginning of "It's Good To See You Again!!". For more information on this creative commons use, please reference https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.

Transcription

This transcript is auto generated by our recording software.

TRANSCRIPT:

00:10.27

Delphina

Hello, and welcome to Screen Tones, where we talk anything and everything webcomics. Today, we're going to be talking about tragic backstories.

00:21.56

Delphina

I'm Delphina, I use she/her pronouns, and I make the webcomic Sambulous.

00:26.86

Krispy

And I'm Krispy, I use she/they pronouns, and I make the webcomics Ghost Junk Sickness and Lunar Blight.

00:32.99

Varethane

I'm Varethane, I use she/they pronouns, and I make the webcomics Chirault and Wychwood.

00:39.77

Rae

And I'm Rae, I use they/them pronouns and I make the webcomics On Empyrean High and Overlord of Ravenfell.

00:48.63

Star

And I'm Star, I use she/her pronouns, and my comic is Castoff.

00:54.03

Delphina

Excellent! Okay, so let's not lie to ourselves. We've all been in the misery pit before. Maybe we even haven't left, thinking about poignant and tragic beginnings to our character stories. And you know what? Tragic backstories are a trope for a reason because painful experiences can add depth and catharsis to characters.

01:16.66

Delphina

But how do we make them resonate with our audiences emotionally in the context of web comics? Um, I think we need to talk about that because it's a big thing. So, um, I'm just gonna throw this out. Hit there. Tell us about your use of the tragic backstory trope, like who are among your saddest blorbos out there. Like tell us what's up.

01:44.05

Krispy

I'm excited for this episode. um As a conversation that kind of comes up like literally everywhere, and we've all been there, like Delphie said, um growing up you know writing stories, imagining this stuff in your head as an edgy, angsty teen, and you're just like, yes, I want them to just they're they're they got like death and they killed the people and the blah blah blah it's it's just a lot it's it's gonna be good um as far as myself i'm gonna talk about like a character that exists in my stories now versus a character that you know when i was a teenager and i had no i couldn't stop um and it's great because they're actually from the same story so ghost junk sickness is

02:33.16

Krispy

I want to say it's kind of like a reboot. I've had this story since 2003 fades into dust. um And, you know, it's gone through a lot of iterations. And one of the things that I think about, like, when you're kind of discussing like tragic backstories is like, you see media and you're just like, oh, my God, like, that was so cool. I love how, like, epic sauce that character was. But also, like, you get attached when, you know, epic sauce character is harmed. ah So a lot of that gets absorbed into the writing.

03:03.32

Krispy

Um, and so for me, I think my saddest blorbo in the ghost junk now, um, I want to say i like the, the three oh, so I have three main characters, uh, Vahn Trigger and Boggmouth.

03:15.79

Krispy

And a lot of like the stories that, uh, we write are very, I guess they're angsty. I'm calling myself out here and I guess I just got to get used to this.

03:24.52

Delphina

No shame.

03:25.57

Varethane

This is the self-callout episode. That's why we're here.

03:28.83

Star

Listen, this is the wet cat Olympics, all right? That's what we were calling this episode before we started recording.

03:32.42

Krispy

we are here it's true um so like uh i'll start with trigger so he is a sad wet meow meow because of like a lot of his decisions uh he thematically in the story was written about owning up uh and running away from your mistakes and you you know just kind of like challenging them and if having um facing them head on kind of thing with um and quite like abrupt situations and I consider him quite wet as a cat.

04:07.24

Varethane

This is Casco.

04:07.79

Star

Just the way you said that, he's quite...

04:09.46

Rae

ah funny thing about so The funny thing about Trigger is he puts himself in the rain half the time too.

04:11.37

Star

lit.

04:17.75

Star

Let's himself outside.

04:19.22

Krispy

yeah

04:19.81

Star

He knows he's competing.

04:22.08

Varethane

The self-sweating cat that sounds bad. Don't air that.

04:26.11

Krispy

so editors get this out

04:27.39

Star

Leave this in, no, leave this in!

04:28.99

Krispy

yeah so this man voluntarily like he does let himself out in the rain like he just keeps staying there like they're like the door's unlocked buddy you can come in and he's like no um so he has like you know a family that has a lot of um kind of angst a lot of uh tension with his dad he didn't have a good father relationship uh he gets into a lot of messy situations with partners and stuff like that and it's a lot of like self-inflicted stuff Um and then of course like one of his biggest moments of punching you in the face with reality was like losing a limb and getting himself blown up and I'm like you know kind of saying it plainly like this makes it sound very edgy but we're just like oh yeah like this character done gun goofed up um also he explodes so you know

05:21.94

Star

Oops-a-doodle!

05:22.81

Krispy

Oops a doodle and like I think of like some of the you know things behind that I'm like how just how edgy that was as far as like yeah I'm gonna move to another character because I'm just like is that as edgy as the next one I'm gonna talk about no um so the other main character that we have is Vaughn And I feel like they are ah beautiful in ah edgy character categories just because they have super powers too. And I feel like that is just like a theme for edginess is to have like a secret power that they can't control looking at you, Fane. And like this character has like these like super powered arms that they don't know where they got them from. And

06:06.61

Krispy

they like had a family that they lost ah tragically that had you know ruined their own kind of like um ah physical self that eventually kind of led to spoilers and you know thinking about how i have constructed it and how they kind of like you know it's just hidden and kind of angsty when it's solely alluded to it and i don't know it's just it it really is a self call out episode

06:39.18

Krispy

And so a lot of characters that I have have a lot of family issues. like That's a big thing with like you know the dynamics of unresolved um tension with their parents.

06:49.70

Krispy

The same with Boggs. like She has a parent who kind of just wanted her to stagnate and stay how she was. And so the angst kind of grew from there. um But I'm going to throw the mic at ah our next person, Thane.

07:02.58

Krispy

I'm sorry, Thane. I'm poking with that one because I've taken ah enough air with this one.

07:04.46

Varethane

Ah, oh, ooh.

07:08.94

Varethane

Oh, well that, you've got plenty of of sad wet cats. my My wet cats definitely fall into a certain ah bunch of types ah of as I've been called out for already. Is this a self-callout if you do it first? um I do love uncontrollable superpowers, it's true.

07:30.87

Varethane

um they're just very juicy there's a lot there's a lot of stuff to mine there you can have like characters who have done something terrible within their own life completely by accident or like hurt people very close to them uh or even killed them uh that has not actually ah I have a bunch of ah characters that have not shown up in my comics and some of them have backstories which go like all over the place.

07:56.54

Varethane

um I also love ah super soldiers just in general especially if they're like they've gone rogue and they're going against their programming and I just love something about that kind of dichotomy of like they have this like you know a natural power um and they're an outsider to society

08:03.63

Krispy

Mhmm.

08:16.33

Varethane

but especially if they like want to help or like they're operating from like a strong moral core or something like that. um Partly because I just like that in a character. Also partly because it makes the angst worse if they're like trying to do the best but like everything in their life is like pushing them to like you know do the worst.

08:36.06

Varethane

um So to try to identify my saddest and wettest meow meow, I kind of I kind of got like a I'll go with an example from each of my comics. um And so I'll I guess Kieran in Charles, he's pretty Pretty sad. ah Not sure about the wetness quotient. Like trying to gauge these things on a spectrum. I don't know. we We've put this Olympics in here.

09:08.35

Varethane

ah But, uh, so his deal is that he, uh, was a small child who died tragically of illness. And then as his parents and community were grieving, uh, there was a terrible magical backlash from an evil wizard that killed them and put evil wizards soul into his little body and raised him as an amnesiac monster who is human enough to like.

09:34.35

Varethane

Want to be a part of society um But extremely different and was just shunned forever. So, you know good good good start thing I mean I enjoy it.

09:44.82

Krispy

That's pretty great.

09:48.57

Varethane

ah I mean I don't I mean he doesn't I suppose There's like

09:53.66

Rae

I'd say the wetness is pretty good for that one.

09:56.50

Krispy

ah

09:57.33

Star

Good wetness quotient.

10:00.03

Varethane

Eldritch goop involved, I suppose.

10:00.59

Delphina

the SOG.

10:02.96

Rae

You need to toss them in the dryer to dry them out of it.

10:03.10

Varethane

Lots of like needs around in the dryer.

10:07.06

Star

Just tumble him around.

10:09.58

Varethane

That's an event in the Olympics, just all of them in the dryer bouncing around. um ah yeah i'll Also, ah to throw in an exit at example from Witchwood, my current comic that I'm working on, um Felix, is like he's another kind of ah part human and part something else who was raised believing that he was created in a test tube basically to be a super weapon that was used by humanity against the invading alien force that is mortal enemies ah and so he's got powers from this alien species ah but he could literally be like jumped into and controlled like just kind of mind hacked by like the people who were like getting to do stuff and ah because he's like

10:57.01

Varethane

fundamentally just like a good boy who wants to help. ah They tell him that he's doing the right thing. And he just kind of believes it and goes along with it, even though it definitely hurts him a lot all the time.

11:09.21

Varethane

um So I don't know. I don't know. Just, just, just throw it in things I haven't done yet.

11:14.83

Krispy

That's quite wet.

11:18.40

Star

verbiage we're going with for the entire episode.

11:19.41

Varethane

Okay. I guess so.

11:20.82

Rae

Like, he's he's literally a flesh mecha.

11:22.23

Krispy

Yeah. ah

11:24.77

Varethane

Basically, yes.

11:25.65

Rae

So, yeah.

11:25.89

Varethane

In fact, literally that.

11:28.31

Star

That's some Evangelion shit.

11:29.18

Varethane

Complete with like glowing circuitry lines because, you know, if you're going to do this kind of thing, you got to be cool with the visuals.

11:35.44

Krispy

Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

11:38.06

Varethane

Like projection energy wings. Cause I also love that kind of thing.

11:44.80

Rae

Wings make everything better and sometimes more angsty.

11:47.78

Varethane

They do actually, I'm going to pass the, uh, the, the Olympic, the Olympics baton to Ray now.

11:48.13

Delphina

It's true.

11:55.10

Rae

All right, so my most of my saddest, wettest Blurbos was probably from my vampire comic that I created when I was starting out and I was a teenager. And I would say Karan was probably my saddest and wettest because the other sat wet b Blurbos were mostly ah my friends' characters.

12:19.42

Rae

But he was pretty much a vampire who was originally a knight from a religious order whose job was to fight against supernatural creatures. And then a vampire bested him as like, you know what would be really funny? Turning him into a vampire.

12:45.19

Rae

So he had kind of a mental break and is like, well, my old life is dead, so I'll go buy this new name now because, you know, that's what you do when you're a sad anime boy.

12:56.66

Rae

um

12:57.61

Star

change your name and move to a different town.

13:03.17

Rae

And of course it has to get sadder and wetter because his brother never believed that he was dead and had to go look for him.

13:03.72

Star

Dye your hair black.

13:15.82

Rae

And eventually it comes out that their grandmaster made a deal with the vampire and essentially just tossed him over to the vampire so he could get what he wanted and also ended up being the one responsible for killing their parents because, you know, I had to make them sadder and wetter.

13:26.87

Krispy

Ha ha ha! Dun, dun, dun.

13:38.42

Krispy

Yeah. It's always with the parents, isn't it? It's just like, yes, eggs begins.

13:42.92

Rae

It really is. It's like the Disney rule. You can only have at most one parent alive.

13:50.68

Krispy

It's so true.

13:53.84

Star

It's like inversely proportional. The number of parents you have alive is inversely proportional to how sad you are.

14:00.61

Rae

It really is.

14:01.49

Star

So the more parents alive, the less sad you are.

14:01.93

Rae

That's really true.

14:04.65

Star

The the fewer parents alive, the more sad you are.

14:05.77

Rae

Unless they're asshole parents.

14:08.25

Star

Also true!

14:10.33

Varethane

Okay, when you're a teenager coming up with like the saddest and wettest and angstiest like blorbo that you can, like having a stable and happy home life is a little bit like you know incongruous with that.

14:22.79

Krispy

ah who

14:23.02

Rae

Yeah, you can't have them be have a happy life. You have to have them sad and wet all the time.

14:26.80

Krispy

Mm-mm.

14:29.74

Krispy

Yep.

14:30.01

Star

Listen, this was maybe a challenge that I took on in my very first webcomic because my main character was pretty sad and wet, but also she had both parents that were still alive and she was like 15, so it's like, hey, well, you know, the second main character has a whole other thing, though.

14:49.43

Krispy

Tell us about them.

14:51.08

Star

um Well, so with my first webcomic side has not been running for years and years, but my first main character, most of her sadness and wetness came from things that happened in the actual story. um But then the secondary main character, her best friend, um had this whole tragic backstory we never got into, where like,

15:09.45

Star

His parents were in a car accident and his mom's dead and his dad's like paralyzed from the waist down so he can't like And so it's like his family's falling apart and it's just like and he's just got there in the story because I stopped making that comic um but yeah, that was a thing um God actually now that I think about it the blurbos in the first webcomic were like

15:16.36

Krispy

Oh my god.

15:26.74

Krispy

ah

15:40.47

Star

on a different level and that feels like it makes sense because that what I did start developing when I was in high school. And so a lot of the the sadness is way more like just hitting you with a baseball bat essentially.

15:57.87

Star

It's very not covert.

15:58.19

Krispy

Yup.

16:00.63

Star

um But as far as comics that I would like people to actually read, don't don't look at the old one. Don't look at the old one. it's Don't look at it.

16:07.95

Varethane

I'm putting Google down.

16:09.61

Star

No.

16:13.53

Star

ah Good luck finding it. There is a K-pop artist with the same name and it has effectively killed my SEO, but anyway.

16:18.75

Krispy

Oh my god!

16:21.70

Star

So that happened!

16:21.74

Rae

If only that could happen with my first one.

16:23.69

Krispy

No!

16:24.96

Rae

well

16:27.20

Star

um Also, it was on Smackajeeves, which is now dead, rest in peace.

16:30.40

Krispy

Oh... pour one out.

16:32.18

Star

um That's my tragic backstory. um

16:37.05

Delphina

god

16:37.91

Star

um

16:38.11

Rae

Rest in peace, Mac Jeeves.

16:39.94

Star

RIP.

16:43.16

Star

Rest in wetness just came to my head? No. Cut this part out.

16:47.21

Krispy

but

16:47.30

Varethane

I hope that one.

16:50.54

Rae

I'm gonna refer tragic characters with that all the time now, thank you.

16:50.64

Krispy

keep

16:50.78

Star

yeah

16:55.14

Krispy

Rest in wetness.

16:57.07

Star

wow

16:58.09

Krispy

ah

16:58.72

Varethane

okay

16:59.80

Star

Rest in a puddle of your own tears.

16:59.92

Krispy

ah

17:04.62

Krispy

ah i

17:05.72

Star

peace be with you and your tragic past. Anyway, um, so in my current comic, i was I was lamenting this before we started recording that I think probably one of the sadder blurbos in Castoff, we haven't gotten to his shit yet.

17:22.22

Star

And I'm like, Oh man, my love to swear on this podcast.

17:26.20

Krispy

ah Yeah! ah

17:26.87

Star

Okay, I just wanted to make sure.

17:30.33

Delphina

I think we already said asshole.

17:30.72

Star

ah five I've been trying to avoid it. And I was like, right, actually, I don't know. um Are they gonna have to edit that part out? Should I redo that line? Anyway.

17:40.59

Star

Cuz like we haven't really gotten to his stuff yet. So ah listen call me in like a couple chapters when Sarah's backstory starts coming out um but there's the long and short of it the parts that have been revealed so far is that a lot of people died and he blames himself and that very much like guides his actions moving forward and he is just he keeps having these trauma nightmares and I'm like good suffer and Fun to draw. The trauma nightmares are fun to draw, okay, leave me alone. um But also, I would throw several of basically all of the main cast of Cast Off has some sort of inherent tragedy in their backstory. um They're fueled by either like a dead family member that they're trying to get revenge for, um who is like wrongly killed and they're like trying to figure things out.

18:30.87

Star

um We've got several characters with family issues. ah We've got a character who was responsible for the deaths of a whole lot of people and isn't quite sure if he should feel bad about it, but he really does.

18:45.89

Star

um And then we've also got our main character, Vector, who at the time we are recording this, I know this episode isn't going to come out for a while longer, um but at the time we are recording this has just found out that instead of, you know, being born and then found in the woods and adopted like a normal person um is actually technically kind of not a person at all according to him and the guy who accidentally invented him.

19:14.04

Star

um He is just the ah shard of emotion that was ripped out of another person's soul and then was so powerful it manifested its own being. And he's like, well, what am I supposed to do with this information?

19:27.65

Rae

You gotta get a keyblade.

19:27.69

Star

Time for a mental breakdown!

19:45.78

Star

Because, like, I accidentally just redid Organization 13, didn't I? Gee, guys. Because, like, so many of the characters have similar things going on. And we just had the backstory of the guy who caused all of it, Sage.

20:04.36

Rae

that

20:04.38

Star

And we got his we he got a whole flashback chapter dedicated to his tragic backstory um Because it was plot relevant um And he's like hey, by the way, I accidentally caused the entire plot of this webcomic.

20:17.80

Star

Bye God now I'm gonna be thinking about Kingdom Hearts again.

20:18.74

Krispy

yeah

20:24.12

Star

Oh, no No,

20:24.39

Krispy

This is a good thing. This is a very good thing. That...

20:28.52

Rae

Just gotta just gotta get a key blade.

20:30.87

Krispy

Yeah, I love this.

20:32.51

Star

well

20:32.61

Krispy

I absolutely love this.

20:34.23

Star

I think I just had an idea for a future mail club crossover illustration. Ah, beans!

20:42.46

Rae

i am not sorry

20:43.93

Star

ah How dare you.

20:47.14

Delphina

I love the like people who are not people sorts of characters though too, just like when it's it's like, oh, I thought I was like a full person.

20:57.29

Delphina

And it turns out like I'm not and how am I going to deal with that? um I'm not mentioning that for any particular reason in regards to Sombulus.

21:03.01

Star

ah you

21:05.29

Rae

I am not sorry.

21:05.92

Star

Oh. Oh.

21:07.24

Delphina

um

21:10.45

Delphina

I do want to say, like um originally in my original draft of Sombulus, Rana was a ghost who was like ah killed by a steer and bound to a steer.

21:23.82

Delphina

And the only person who could see Rana was Sydney.

21:24.04

Krispy

what

21:29.42

Delphina

for some reason. So Rana reaches out to Sydney to to fight a steer and and free her her spirit. i don't I don't think I got like far enough to like actually figure it out. like So free her spirit so she could pass on or or something like that. but like

21:49.33

Delphina

I did not go that direction. Some of that is gone. But um but yeah, it was just, it was so much. And I think it part of me realized that so I stepped back from that.

22:02.67

Delphina

I feel like a steer got really angsty. he was He was born in a magical lab as a lab rat with his siblings and his mom especially.

22:13.55

Delphina

We'll go back to the parents. You get the impression never regarded him as anything more than an experiment. So he's dealing with that when he he finally finds her again.

22:20.27

Krispy

Mm hmm.

22:24.84

Delphina

um But they escape from the lab. He has to kind of hide who he is from society. He messes things up a lot because he doesn't know what he's doing, um but he still tries to keep like cheerful about it.

22:37.00

Delphina

And I think my flavor of sadness falls a lot into like that tears of a clown stuff, like characters who are just going through the thing, going through thing after thing after thing and pushing it all back to try to keep smiling or kind of try to keep strong or say, it's no big deal.

22:41.05

Krispy

Hmm.

22:53.34

Delphina

And then eventually they break. um um But um yeah, and then Sydney is a little similar. like She's raised around this religious order. She's a knight. She has to fight evil magic people, um or who she's been told were were the ultimate evil. um And she has this kind of arc deconstructing that.

23:17.12

Delphina

um But then eventually she goes home and she has a lot of questions like why was I taught this what's going on? And the answer is she gets back from her superiors and her loved ones are just increasingly more bad and there's like memory things she gets Disintegrated she gets thrown in prison. She almost gets killed by her God um and I went through this um I actually decided um like, to do this like inception sad cat Olympics approach where she gets to live the tragic childhood of another character by going into their minds. So like, I don't even know where that falls on the spectrum. But I just thought that was interesting. We were talking about this because ah so yeah, just lots of sad

24:02.35

Krispy

That's like a sadness inception.

24:04.68

Varethane

Oh my god.

24:04.95

Star

boy but doctor i am

24:05.96

Varethane

I gotta say though, i I also love the like, you know, trying to push through and like keep up a cheerful face. But now that I've heard the phrase tears of the clown, I'm like, I can't think of it the same way anymore.

24:22.23

Rae

I always call it a multi of cocktail of emotion.

24:25.62

Krispy

ah

24:26.52

Delphina

Oh no, it was like an oldie song. You don't know the song like Tears of a Clown.

24:28.91

Krispy

Yeah, the tears of a clown.

24:31.91

Delphina

Like a guy who's like got broken up with his girlfriend and then he's like, oh, but I'm smiling through it. You know, you don't see my my tears. I'm just going to joke about it. Like that's kind of the theme of the song.

24:42.37

Delphina

So that's why that comes up.

24:42.93

Varethane

I have not heard that song.

24:43.61

Delphina

But I mean, you can think of like actual clowns if you want to.

24:48.14

Varethane

I I was.

24:48.85

Rae

I will.

24:49.93

Varethane

That was what was happening.

24:52.62

Krispy

Real sad clowns happening now.

24:56.12

Star

in your area. but

24:58.32

Varethane

Oh, god. They're teaming up with the sad wet cats.

25:00.34

Star

They're coming to you!

25:00.54

Delphina

I'm away Oh my gosh

25:02.83

Varethane

They're helping them cheat in the Olympics.

25:03.86

Krispy

Let them in!

25:04.44

Star

Meow, meow, meow! Oh god, there's so many!

25:07.96

Krispy

Let them in! I did want to say though, um I am absolutely floored by the amount of like born in a lab and then you know raised like you know as an experiment because like that was one of the things from my old previous version of Ghost Check Sickness that I had was that Fawn was made in a lab and raised without parents and stuff. We dropped that but I'm just like every time I hear like anybody talk about I'm like yes I was obsessed with stuff like that the whole test tube superpower thing like that was just

25:39.95

Krispy

that's my jam and of course it's like so yeah i try i don't know i'm i'm trying to behave yeah

25:41.22

Varethane

I'm still obsessed with stuff like that.

25:47.57

Varethane

hi So technically, the thing with Felix is like, it was like a, no, not a red herring, exactly. He wasn't actually made in a test tube, though. But he was kind of raised in a lab, so.

26:02.77

Delphina

Yeah, I mean, like getting taken into a lab at a young age. I feel like that that still kind of counts. um But yeah, to your point, Crispy, like sometimes you do have to rein it back because I feel like um if you go for every single thing on the menu, you're gonna get too full, right?

26:20.79

Krispy

Mm hmm.

26:20.99

Delphina

so So I just wanted to like kind of go into that like what kinds of issues can happen when you use tragic backstories or you know what made you back off from that or or just any other things that you think of like why it might not be the best idea to put all the tragedy in there.

26:39.16

Krispy

So um I think like you know as we've said before kind of growing up you're kind of hungry for the inks just because it makes you really latch on to characters but then kind of like as you're writing it or you're getting more mature um as the ages go by um there's just an overabundance that starts to get suffocating and I see a lot of folks with their stories kind of run into like these people that just cry um like immediately but with like the smallest things um and the impact of a moment or a plot point or a beat gets taken away uh taken away from the story and it's hard to focus on

27:26.19

Krispy

you you know, what we're supposed to be kind of learning from this. And like, is it plot relevant? And I think Star just mentioned that even in passing already on this episode about being plot relevant.

27:37.42

Krispy

And I understand having characters being sad, wet, yum, yows.

27:37.72

Star

Mm hmm.

27:42.51

Krispy

And it's fun because you're just like, you suffer. it's it's It's something that's always happening when I'm in like discussions with folks about characters and stories, whatever in the webcomic circles, even in any kind of writing circle is that you always see like, well, I have the saddest OC though. Do you know how sad my OC is? I think that's good.

28:09.74

Star

yeah

28:12.34

Star

It just gets to a point where it almost feels like they're treating it like a competition. The sad wet cat olympics is like who can create the most tortured OC and then and then brag about it to all their writer friends and it's

28:16.88

Krispy

Yes.

28:20.48

Krispy

Yes!

28:24.80

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

28:26.24

Rae

Yeah, they get really, really competitive and, you know, it's the wettest.

28:28.63

Varethane

Oh, that's a sad wet cat you got there, but have you seen how sad and wet my cat is? Oh, I got rid of this guy!

28:35.31

Star

Like, it's like that scene from that movie where they're all comparing business cards, and they all kind of look the same, but then the guy in- I haven't seen this movie, but it is the guy's just like, my god, it even has a watermark. My god, he even has a dead village.

28:52.69

Krispy

Oh my god, I need to make an edit with that.

28:54.42

Star

ah so My god, dead parents, superpowers, they can't control- Yes, that gimp right there! yeah

29:04.99

Krispy

Oh my god.

29:06.06

Star

tastefulness of this dead best friend?

29:08.61

Krispy

Yes, it is that like you just it it distracts it distracts from what what the whole point of like even enjoying the show is and I think like I the issue for me because I don't want to take all of like everybody's thoughts that the issue for me before I pass the baton on is that I don't remember what the story is about I remember how angsty the characters are and I just I log off

29:31.40

Star

a

29:33.77

Krispy

because I don't, the the impact wasn't there. And I felt like, I usually call this like the hand of the author when they're like really pushing the character at the screen and they're like, look how sad they are. Look at all of people that died around them. Aren't they like the saddest person in the whole world? And it gets, it just gets a little much, especially when we're like, we're saying like, it feels like a competition. And when it happens too much in the story, it feels like I'm like,

29:59.63

Krispy

I don't know, I'm being strapped down and just forced to read it as something and be like, feel sad!

30:07.44

Varethane

waterboarding. right yeah

30:08.54

Rae

Yeah, I think it's kind of the same thing where you have that character where, oh, everything goes right with them.

30:09.46

Star

with tears.

30:17.58

Rae

They're so popular. they're and They they like automatically defeat the villain in two seconds, but it's the opposite. of that. It's like everything is terrible. Their sandwich fell in the pool today. there The villain killed their parents. You know, nothing goes right for them. And it's like the world is still going like around them, but they're not actually part of it.

30:50.54

Star

Yeah, I guess my thing that I wanted to add is like, it gets to a point where your character has suffered so much and it just makes me want to look at the author in the eyes and be like, why?

31:05.03

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

31:05.61

Star

But not in the, why would you do this to them?

31:08.51

Krispy

Yep.

31:08.70

Star

It's like, what point are you trying to make? And it's like, what is, cause I mean, that kind of is one of my issues. with stories that like go a little bit too hard with the sadness like I rented about this in a video recently but like this is why I stopped watching The Walking Dead it's just like it feels like these characters are just miserable for the sake of being miserable and if you get off on that then sure that's one thing but like it's just why am I wasting precious time in my life just watching these characters be sad what is the point

31:26.35

Krispy

Oh! Yes! Mm-hmm.

31:44.24

Star

of it. What are you trying to do with this sadness? How is it affecting how your characters move through the universe? Because at some point, it's just you're making them sad, just to make them sad, and then point to them and be like, look how sad our characters are.

31:52.28

Krispy

who

32:00.25

Star

Look at them. And this was a point I made on Blue Sky the other night where it's just like, I feel like a lot of more inexperienced writers or writers who are drawn to like this kind of, we'll call it misery porn maybe even, it's just like, they just want to point at a broken thing and be like, wow, look how broken that thing is.

32:10.90

Krispy

Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Yes.

32:21.67

Star

Isn't that interesting? But like, a lot of times the answer is no, it is not very interesting. I want to know why you have done this. What is the point?

32:31.87

Varethane

I feel like part of what tragic backstories can be kind of useful for is like fueling character motivations and goals, because sometimes you build these things in and you set up your storyline where like you know whatever things are happening in the plot and then you can have a moment somewhere.

32:49.91

Varethane

Uh, maybe soon, maybe late, where you reveal things and you get that like, Oh, that's why they've been this way. Like emotional beat that like kind of emotionally punches the audience when you like sort of unveil.

32:58.32

Krispy

Yeah.

33:04.99

Varethane

what's been, what's been making this person tick. Um, and that kind of thing, it's like, Oh, it is catnip.

33:08.42

Star

Yes.

33:11.46

Varethane

Um, those can be such great scenes. Um, but you do have to be kind of careful with it. Um, because the most, when the, the way you get the most impact out of it is when it has not actually been the entire story so far.

33:28.17

Varethane

Um, so the, uh, like. if If the story has been kind of nonstop big tragic moments, then ah it can kind of take away from the impact of the beat itself and overshadow the actual events of within the comic, especially the rest of the cast.

33:41.25

Krispy

Mmhmm.

33:47.53

Varethane

Like if you have like a bunch of characters, um maybe there's something that is just so big and so dramatic that now nobody else really gets any air, like emotionally speaking, because like this thing is just so big and so horrible, ah whether it's because you just don't have page time to spend on them, or you just kind of can't, ah like you don't get around to it, really, or you give them their beats and it's in between, like something else horrible happening.

34:14.53

Krispy

Mhmm.

34:16.36

Varethane

um But if you if you try to be like, oh, but everybody else also has their own tragic backstories going on, and you try to show all of those things, it can get really like overwhelming ah and have a really bad effect on audience immersion, um especially if you stay too long in the tone

34:25.07

Krispy

Yep.

34:33.84

Varethane

Of the tragedy reveal because then you can have ah things will just get very monotonous like emotionally speaking.

34:35.54

Krispy

Yes!

34:40.77

Varethane

It's like flat because it's been at one emotional note the whole time with no variation and that makes you lose a lot of impact.

34:50.36

Delphina

Yeah, and I think that's a pacing issue, especially with webcomics, because we're all working on webcomic time, we're all trying to like get the stories out as fast as we can. But it's still taking years. And people can't do this in like, people can't take that kind of tone for years. So what might have actually like worked in maybe another medium and maybe a book or a scene where you could like get through that scene,

35:16.55

Delphina

and you know the the reader can reasonably get through the scene in um you know a matter of minutes is going to take so much longer. like That's why when you have to try to take into consideration like, hey, am I spending too long? Have I spent long enough establishing a character that someone cares enough ah about to even like feel the things I want to feel about them because like there's there's a lot of people that are strangers to me that like yeah on ah a very basic level I will feel sad if they tell me that their their cat died or their you know other things have happened to them um their their sandwich fell in the pool or whatever but I'm not gonna have the same emotional reaction as like somebody who's like I saw them build that sandwich

35:51.63

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

36:07.79

Delphina

for like a year.

36:08.77

Krispy

Yes!

36:10.69

Delphina

They were so invested in the sandwich. They were looking forward to eating the sandwich. They had had it up to their mouth and oh my gosh, it just fell in the pool.

36:14.79

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

36:19.72

Delphina

that That's how you kind of do it. And so it's it's about pacing. It's about looking um for for the opportunity to show why this is important and what's important.

36:30.17

Delphina

And I feel like a lot of us get into our heads with our blurbology. We've been with these characters for years and years and years, and the reader doesn't know them quite like we do.

36:40.90

Krispy

Yes.

36:42.40

Delphina

So when we don't explain that and take the time to show the characters in their element and get the reader to to invest in them emotionally, then any other emotional impact that you try to make, whether tragic or otherwise, isn't going to land.

36:59.92

Krispy

No, it's it's perfectly said. It's exactly all of that stuff, especially with webcomic time. And like I think at the kind of end of the day, as far as writing goes, like when you are reading something, watching something, playing something, or whatever, and you hit a reaction that makes you cry, um that really resonates with you, or something that just evokes something quite big, you want that as a writer you know to have your readers experience something like that. And I think that as emotional and that powerful kind of draw, um that drives a lot of people. And I think that's where the Olympics of the wet cat comes from because they want someone

37:43.97

Krispy

during these discussions or you know as their story is being released to react that way. They want to hear someone say, oh my god I got to that part in your webcomic where the character dropped their sandwich and I am in tears. The you know the way that you craft it you know brought me two years of this way and and like that's the goal. um The journey to get there is something else though.

38:11.15

Star

Yeah, I just, the way you said that just made me think that I feel like maybe something that younger or more inexperienced creators are trying to do is they really, really re- they see like these emotional moments in stories and they want emotional moments in their own stories and they want people to have those emotional reactions when they are reading their own webcomic.

38:29.60

Krispy

Mmhmm.

38:35.66

Star

And I think that maybe they're kind of missing the how to get there, and they see, I just have to make a blorbo who's really, really sad.

38:47.29

Star

And then when he's really, really sad on in the comic, then people will feel really, really sad about them. But it's not about how sad you make the character.

38:57.81

Star

It is all in the presentation of those moments. I made people cry with a hug between two characters.

39:05.32

Krispy

Yeah.

39:06.78

Star

And that was not an inherently sad moment, but, you know, this was in like the seventh chapter of the comic.

39:07.28

Krispy

Yep.

39:11.98

Star

We've known these character for several hundred pages. We kind of get what they're going through at this point. And then you hit, you hit them with the line, no one's ever called me a friend before.

39:20.26

Krispy

Mm

39:23.48

Star

And you just wreck your audience.

39:23.56

Krispy

hmm.

39:25.59

Star

And I still get comments on that scene.

39:27.37

Krispy

Yeah.

39:29.16

Star

And that was a long time ago. And it's like, there was not an especially Sad. That was not a sad backstory reveal. Like, we already knew this about the character. It was just a matter of presentation.

39:42.05

Star

It's how you show the sadness.

39:42.16

Krispy

Mm hmm.

39:44.85

Star

It's not how sad is your blorbo. It is what you do with the sadness you have given to them.

39:50.53

Krispy

who

39:50.87

Star

To really badly quote Lord of the Rings.

39:53.92

Krispy

Yeah.

39:55.66

Rae

Yeah, I would say like sometimes a new writer will be like, well, if this emotional moment made everyone cry their eyes out, if I put all the emotional moments that I know about all together, all at once, people will really, really be crying.

40:11.63

Krispy

yeah

40:15.61

Krispy

Mm hmm.

40:15.87

Rae

And it just doesn't work that way because you really just get diminishing returns like if you just keep one tone and don't break up the misery sometimes, honestly.

40:30.11

Rae

like some of the highest points will be um paired with the lowest and can just give you that whiplash that makes the emotional gut punch just that more. Like the an example I would probably take that most people know would be the Mulan movie where they're singing about how horny they are and then they come across the devastated village.

40:56.01

Krispy

Yeah!

40:58.13

Varethane

Oh, that was so good though.

41:02.69

Delphina

Yeah, it's the juxtaposition, right? It's like, and that's I feel like why I come back to my tears of a clown, like just like seeing these people like, super happy and having these moments and then oh, okay.

41:15.42

Krispy

Yes.

41:15.45

Delphina

And you can't get that if your story is ah mired in the bog of the sandwich for too long. like It's just not gonna it's not going to get there. You don't have any place to fall from unless you go up a little. so it's like

41:33.82

Varethane

Finishing returns is a great way to put it.

41:34.17

Delphina

keep

41:36.45

Krispy

Yeah.

41:36.47

Delphina

Yeah, yeah, it's, um, but I mean, even you can't start out that way either. Like a lot of times people, I feel like want to, or at least my original version of Samba is where I'm just like, Oh, okay. I'm going to show this person in a wrecked world and and everybody's dead and blah, blah, blah, blah. And like.

41:59.15

Delphina

There's only so many ways you can go from that. And I don't know if these people care about this person a lot. um So yeah, just thinking about the contrast, thinking about what you can do to kind of ah make that a little less monotonous.

42:18.30

Krispy

Yeah, and you know, I often think about like, you know, jumping into advice, I guess, doing this kind of stuff. um I, the thing that I think about is when people kind of want these emotional reactions is that they

42:27.65

Delphina

Yeah.

42:36.65

Krispy

constantly feel like they need to up the ante in the weirdest ways. And like, upping the ante only works if the characters in the plot who are experiencing said ante being upped.

42:47.84

Krispy

like are invested in it too. um Like you can have like, you know, a story ah in succession or a series or whatever, like have like more and more to deal with as the seasons go on or or something like that. Um, you know, get invested. But when the characters are kind of like not reacting to it, or you know, when they're, I guess the audience are not as attached to why this should mean anything, that's when you're going to start dropping the ball. And that goes hand in hand with something like the tragic backstory. like You can give us all of this information, like we've said a lot of times in this podcast episode, about you know you can tell us that they were ah making the sandwich and and whatnot. and And we can have the backstory of you know the lettuce being grown and the hand-grown tomatoes. We're really going with this, but you know.

43:40.73

Star

Good metaphor, roll with it.

43:42.48

Krispy

um We could really go with something like this and then the the parents were half demon half angels and why not? And then someone someone was in a science test tube and have superpowers.

43:50.26

Delphina

Hey now.

43:56.71

Krispy

ah Everybody's glowing. I'm just throwing in a bunch of stuff. We're all being called out here. um And, you know, you can get to that point, but like, it needs to have a reason for existing and just being sad is just that's not a good enough reason for me, it might have worked. And it did work when I was younger as a teenager, it did work. But I need to, i mean there needs to be a reason I need to have like,

44:22.87

Krispy

is this making some kind of context as to why this character is like this in a way that affects the plot. Not just, not solely just drama. I don't want to enter the Rachel and Ross thing. Let's not go back to stuff like that, the back and forth.

44:39.34

Star

One of my favorite ways to show a tragic backstory, this is something I've done for a really long time with Cast-Off, it's just my favorite, and then I've also like seen some really good examples coming out of anime and stuff recently, is before you show the tragic backstory, show the audience how and why it affects them, and then reveal the tragic backstory later, and then the audience can be like, oh, that's why they're like this.

45:00.81

Krispy

Mmhmm. Yeah.

45:10.27

Star

um a good example that's not from a webcomic actually um but that some people listening might understand is uh dungeon meshy does this fantastically um especially with senshi i won't spoil it but essentially like he's this guy he really loves food is like very obsessed with like making sure that everyone eats well and takes care of themselves and then like about three quarters of the way through the first season you get his tragic backstory and you're just like oh my god he's been like this the whole time and that's why Oh my god!

45:37.43

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

45:40.91

Krispy

Mm-hmm.

45:42.96

Delphina

It was so bad.

45:44.21

Krispy

Yep.

45:45.19

Rae

Oh my god, that that makes me think of that trope being misused, though, in ah in another anime, actually.

45:45.39

Star

And so I think...

45:45.41

Krispy

Yep.

45:51.52

Star

Oh yeah? Ah.

45:54.33

Rae

Jujutsu Kaisen. It worked the first, like, two times for me, but then the sixth time, not so much, which, again, where it means you can't have, like, the same thing and expect the same amount of returns.

46:00.73

Star

Hmm.

46:13.61

Star

Listen, if I may have a spicy opinion for a moment, um i I dropped Jujutsu Kaisen before the first season even finished.

46:16.84

Krispy

Oh.

46:20.41

Krispy

Oh.

46:20.73

Star

um

46:21.67

Rae

Honestly, you dropped it during the peak, in my opinion.

46:24.58

Star

yeah

46:26.45

Rae

so

46:26.74

Star

i ah Listen, i I dropped it on like episode 11 or something.

46:26.77

Krispy

ah

46:27.86

Rae

um

46:31.18

Star

I'm like, this is not going to give me the emotions that I want. I can already tell and I never went back. And based on how I like heard from other people talking, um I made a good call.

46:40.43

Rae

You did. i I lasted the... God, I can't even remember what arc it was. he But yeah, i I just got tired of it after they murdered my favorite character anyway.

46:52.42

Star

That's what happened to me!

46:56.50

Star

I I was talking about this on stream the other day, and people were like, yeah, Jiu-Jitsu Kaisen's not like that great, but the doomed yaoi is great. And I'm like, I just made a whole chapter! I'm willing to bet that my doomed yaoi is better than their doomed yaoi!

47:10.92

Star

And I did it pages!

47:13.65

Delphina

Wow.

47:13.82

Star

It's not a canon relationship or anything, but like, there were people who shipped those too, so I mean like, Does it count? I'll stop talking now.

47:25.16

Varethane

I think ah some this this kind of ties into sort of what I would want to say as kind of advice, ah because there's there's a lot of stuff that I could say about like how to work in like a tragic backstory and like how to like help its impact and like fine tune and tailor it. But like when you're structuring a story, ah sometimes it's worth kind of thinking about whether it whether you want or whether it should be in at all um and I think one of the one of the metrics that like uh is good to think about is whether this try this backstory fits in in any way with the larger themes that your story is going with um like if you're kind of going for something like uh just ah at ah at a at a meta textual like overarching level uh

48:04.24

Krispy

Yes.

48:05.22

Star

Mm-mm.

48:13.53

Varethane

Is it about like, you know, trust or like friendship or about like warfare or about like the nature of humanity or like something? Like if there's any kind of overarching thing that you're trying to explore with your story and the tragic backstory fits in with that, then like absolutely keep that in there and go with it. um If it doesn't, then you might just like want to not not put it in. um You can save it for bonus content. You can kind of ah keep it for later. ah You can remove that character or like bump them into a different story. Just kind of ah spread it around because if you try to show

48:52.51

Varethane

like if you have a cast of like five main characters and every single one of them has like a wildly different like tragic backstory and you're like and then they will each get an entire like five chapter arc dedicated to their tragic backstory like that story structure is going to be a mess I don't even know what kind of theme you'd be going for with that sort of thing um but like that's what you know different different stories are for sometimes you can kind of pick pick a focus

49:08.43

Star

Yeah.

49:18.71

Varethane

and stick with it and then pick other things that are compatible with that focus that won't take air away from it that won't like compete with it or i mean a little bit of variation in theme is fine but it should reflect in some way on kind of the larger thing that you're trying to do.

49:38.30

Delphina

Yeah, and I think that comes into play a lot. If you're working from an RP, if you're like, if you've done this story in some iteration with friends and everybody has come up with their own character, um nobody's necessarily thinking of each other's backstories and stuff. And I know Ray has um has worked that way before with with different comics um coming from RPs and trying to like figure out what to do with other people's characters and how much emphasis they should have.

50:10.09

Rae

Yeah, that's the that's the thing too, is for an RP, everyone has a main character, at least one. um So you definitely have to decide whose tragic backstory is more important than the other because everyone probably has a tragic backstory in RP, um especially when you're teenagers.

50:18.70

Krispy

Mm hmm.

50:35.15

Rae

ah So it's Definitely one of those things I had to carve away at the angst of one particular friend's backstory because it was just too much and it was actually pretty much all the other characters would have to stop everything and comfort this person and that was not exactly

50:56.95

Krispy

Mmhmm.

50:59.17

Rae

very good for getting the plot moving along. So his backstory kind of just had a very much reduced um effect on the plot and I had to like kind of reduce his entire role as well so he didn't kind of take over the stories of everyone that was at least even a little bit tied to his his own story.

51:08.69

Krispy

Mmhmm.

51:25.23

Krispy

who Like that's just the thing though that I think about like when I was talking about earlier with upping the ante and stuff like that is like one thing that we've kind of all discussed about the fact that it needs that context.

51:39.45

Krispy

to get that impact is that like it doesn't have to be even like overkill too. And I think like a lot of that comes from like, you know, the newer creators, younger folks, just wanting to kind of hit that reaction, you know, like, um, ah so I have like nine niblings, I am very used to being an auntie in a Loud House.

51:59.68

Krispy

And one thing that kids do um is that they say these things to elicit a reaction from you. And I feel like it's very similar to that, is that they'll say like just crazy things. They'll like screen, they'll be like, ah dinosaur butts in the middle of a conversation just to kind of see if like the adults turn their head and be like, did you just screen dinosaur butts or something like that?

52:22.54

Krispy

And, like, I think a lot of it is similar with writing is that you want to have like, you know, you're discussing in in like circles of like different artists, creators, and you want like people to turn their heads and be like, Oh, but you know this story has Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, super sad. Everybody explodes with tears. If you cry, you explode, die. Like, you know, something like that. And then it just gets everybody to be like, wow, man, that's the saddest thing ever kind of thing. And I think that they're just really chasing um that reaction just because it feels similar to crying when you reacted to something intense. And again, I think it's just translating that, translating what you want,

53:09.09

Krispy

to have your readers react to similar to a feeling that you had. And I always think of like that thing about Ghibli films, how they ah cry like overly so like their eyes are just like there's like the sea is coming out. And I I can't remember exactly the quote but I do you remember it was something to do with the fact that like it's not realistic um just to be like whatever it's realistic with a meaning and that's because they're on top of crying uh overly so with ghibli tears ah it's it's the feeling like it's like this is what it feels like to cry like you feel like you're just like everything's coming out and like you know you can use that stuff visually you could kind of like lean into stuff like that

53:52.93

Krispy

um with with different aspects to elicit ah that kind of emotion. And I just think that's interesting um as far as the emotion goes.

54:03.61

Delphina

Yeah, I like the parallel too of of bringing in the art because we do work in a visual medium and we can certainly use that. um I really like flooding. I like that kind of like that feeling it because it is tears, it can be tears, it can be being overwhelmed, it can just be like the fear of drowning or something like that. I think that's a really good visual metaphor when you don't necessarily want to be 100% completely literal. um I think people fall into this

54:34.24

Delphina

um to this trap when they're revealing the tragic backstory where it's just two people in the room and it's a talking head sort of thing and like they're just they're just talking about it and stuff and we don't see any visual representation of it. um And we have to you know kind of use all the tools at our disposal, right? So being able to show you know, whether it's flashback sequences or like even something even more metaphorical, like somebody's crinkling their their napkin or or spilling their coffee or something like that. i I feel like that can really emotionally punctuate like how the character is feeling without them necessarily saying, Oh, I'm so sad, because that's not realistic. People don't do that.

55:20.57

Krispy

who Yeah, no, it's it's exactly that. And I think like leading on reactions can really help um really push that stuff. One of the things that I like doing in um my comics is because it's a visual medium, we have a lot of like, you know,

55:38.28

Krispy

places to play around with and a lot of fun to to kind of explore. um Like Delphi said, like the curriculum of the napkins and stuff, but you can also do like color cues and other visual cues that don't feel realistic. um But they just elicit like a lot of that emotion. And the other thing that I like doing is just like being subtle about it and slowly pushing um some kind of like, ah guess cues until it kind of reaches that point of like, Oh, it was relevant in these ways that we saw the character kind of slowly reacting to something that build up and then you know you reach that kind of like realization or that

56:15.19

Krispy

you know, reveal whatever, um, to kind of make all those points make sense. It's nice for rereadability too. That's something that I always like to do. Um, as far as my stories are as concerned is kind of go back and follow the the crumbs that were laid down. Um, but like being subtle about it, um, kind of like a, a faucet that's just stripping. And then, you know, when it gets to that point, like, uh, faucets on the water's everywhere. We got to clean up, save the sandwich.

56:43.09

Rae

rip sandwich.

56:45.56

Star

We'll all remember the sandwich.

56:45.64

Delphina

Sandwich is gone.

56:48.52

Star

Never got eaten.

56:50.80

Krispy

I'd be sad.

56:51.96

Rae

I would be sad too. But see, everyone has always accidentally dropped a piece of food they were really looking forward to eating.

57:02.10

Delphina

It's a fury.

57:02.41

Rae

So you just gotta channel that Pothos and make them sad about the sandwich. It doesn't have to be dead parents.

57:12.44

Star

It can be dead sandwich.

57:12.92

Varethane

Honestly, my strategy is usually, like, I don't make them talk about it at all. I'll just show it in little bits and pieces over time and until it hits its freaking point.

57:21.05

Krispy

Mmhmm.

57:21.08

Star

Yeah.

57:23.55

Krispy

Mmhmm.

57:23.73

Varethane

But yeah, the showing is is absolutely key. Like, you gotta use everything.

57:31.21

Krispy

Alright, I'm hitting pause. It's coming. Who?

57:37.35

Delphina

Oh my gosh. um Well, that's um I don't think sufficiently sad. I feel like I'm sufficiently thinking about sad clowns um eating sandwiches and stuff. So maybe we should just like call this right now while um I have a ah BLT sandwich? I don't know. We can't do rats right now. I think we're in sandwich mode. um But um thank you so much for listening. I've been your host Adel Fina and you can check out my work at Sambulous.com. It is the saddest.

58:12.38

Krispy

and I'm crispy. You can check out my work at ghostjunk sickness.com and lunarblight.com. It's very tragic.

58:22.16

Varethane

ah I'm Verithain and you can check out my sad wet super soldiers with uncontrollable powers ah comics at terrault.7smith.net and witchwoodcomic.com.

58:36.15

Rae

And I'm Rae. You can check out my comics at Overlord of Ravenfell on Webtoon and on Empyrean High on Empyreancomic.com. And I'll promise you there's been very sad dragons. Not bad dragons, sad dragons.

58:53.02

Star

Oh. And I'm Star! You can find my stuff at castoff-comic dot.com where all the ingredients for the sandwich are sad about the separation.

59:04.63

Varethane

Aw.

59:04.84

Star

I guess.

59:05.20

Delphina

So the tragedy is coming back together as a sandwich. Oh, my God.

59:10.01

Varethane

So wait, important question though.

59:10.19

Star

yeah

59:10.84

Krispy

oh Oh No the readers will find out yeah the readers decide

59:11.63

Star

i

59:14.01

Varethane

Who won the Olympics?

59:16.33

Delphina

I think we're all.

59:17.05

Rae

Crispy readers that win.

59:18.70

Delphina

Oh, you all

59:23.42

Star

Next time on Krispy Podcast.

59:24.60

Varethane

yeah

59:27.94

Krispy

ah only poo